Actual End Date

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This topic contains 13 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  GarryB 3 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • TomB1121
    Participant

    Quick Question..

    Should we be recording all our learners who have now been put through gateway with their actual end dates matching that of the last learning contact we had. And then just adding in the achievement date when we know the result? Assuming that in changing the end date we also close down the contract end date field too with that learning actual end date until we know the achievement date.

    In doing so and providing that the learner has finished ahead of planned end date, will the ESFA then pay out the remainder of the training costs, which will just leave the completion payment which is triggered by the Achievement Date.

    Thanks.

     
    #446791

    steveh
    Participant

    When a learner reaches Gateway, you add the Actual End Date as the date on the Gateway form, leave Completion as 1 and make Outcome 8 until they complete all elements of the EPA.

    If that Actual End Date is before their Planned End Date (because that date was decided when we were expecting it to be EPA date) there is some confusion as to whether you receive the balance of the 80%. I’ve got one provider where it *hasn’t* happened in some instances (and this has reminded me to chase the Service Desk!) and they’ve received the balance along with the completion payment, but it is what we’re supposed to do!

     
    #446807

    steveh
    Participant

    Just to feedback, this was the response I got from the Service Desk (INC01208682):

    Balancing OPPs and Completion Payments will be made once the learner on an Apprentice Standards has been either

    i) Recorded as completing the learning element of their Apprenticeship and awaiting the outcome of their End Point Assessment in the ILR. (Completion Status 1, Outcome 8, Actual End Date **/**/****)
    or
    ii) Recorded as completing the learning element of their Apprenticeship and End Point Assessment associated with the learners Apprenticeship. (Completion Status 2, Outcome 1/2/3, Actual End Date **/**/**** Achievement Date **/**/****)

    Please note, the above is also subject to the Training Provider also collecting any relevant co-investment contributions from the Employer, and/or any value over the funding band maximum.

     
    #447198

    TomB1121
    Participant

    Thanks steve thats really helpful.

    Can i just confirm then that when i input the learning actual end date, do i also close the contract end date to match in the Funding and Monitoring tab.

     
    #447206

    steveh
    Participant

    Hi Tom

    No, you add the ACT To date to match the Achievement Date (which then gives you an annoying warning that you can ignore) when you add that.

     
    #447224

    TomB1121
    Participant

    Hi Steve,

    Having followed the guidance, we are quite surprised on our Period End Reports this month to find that non of the learners who we did this for have been paid in balancing payments. One learner in fact, who’s end date was backdated to April then had her April payment taken back! We should have had 3 months balancing payments and have instead been penalised!

    Any ideas?

     
    #447815

    steveh
    Participant

    Sorry mate, you’re going to have to ask the service desk, they’ve not go back to me about my client’s learners that this happened to…

     
    #447817

    steveh
    Participant

    The only thing it might be is any outstanding employer contributions, but I thought they were only stopping the completion payment for that…

     
    • This reply was modified 4 weeks ago by  steveh.
    #447819

    Judy M
    Participant

    Hi

    Please could I ask, is the completion code 1 and outcome 8 applied to the standard or ZPROG or both?

    To date we’ve been waiting for learners to achieve their EPA before closing them down on the ILR at all – it looks like we could have been starting the completion process sooner?

    Many thanks,

    Judy

     
    #447993

    steveh
    Participant

    I’m assuming by “standard” you mean the component aim?

    it kind of doesn’t matter what you do with it until the ZPROG is set to 2, when it also needs to be completed, but generally one would be completing it at gateway?

    but yes, when you sign off the Gateway paperwork, the ZPROG is set to:
    Completion: 1
    Outcome: 8
    Actual End Date: [date on Gateway paperwork]

    Then, when a learner has completed all parts of the EPA:
    Completion: 2
    Outcome: 1 if they pass, 3 if they fail
    Actual End Date: [date on Gateway paperwork]
    Achievement Date: [date of completing the last element of the EPA]

     
    #447999

    Judy M
    Participant

    Thanks Steve, that’s great!

     
    #448003

    GarryB
    Participant

    The guidance that Steveh received from the Service Desk seems to contradict the technical funding guidance which states that the completion payment for standards is paid when the achievement date is present:

    54. For apprentices on apprenticeship standards who complete their learning or EPA in the 2019 to 2020 funding year or later, the completion element is earned when you record an ‘Achievement date’ in the ILR and the ‘Completion status’ is recorded using code 2 (‘The learner has completed the learning activities leading to the learning aim’). You will earn this funding for the month of the ‘Achievement date’, even if this month is different to the ‘Learning planned end date’ or the ‘Learning actual end date’ of the programme.

     
    #448204

    steveh
    Participant

    Ah, think that’s an emphasis thing.

    We were mainly talking about the balancing OPPs, which is, as I understood it, what point 1 is referring to, point 2 is about the completion payment.

    Because, yes, I agree that the completion payment doesn’t come til you’ve added the Ach Date and set completion to 2.

     
    #448208

    GarryB
    Participant

    OK Steve, understood. Had me going there ….

     
    #448214
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