Actual OTJ

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This topic contains 8 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  OFFS 2 weeks, 2 days ago.

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  • Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Just planning for next year, and want to get everything sussed for Actual OTJ.

    Presumably there will be a validation rule that says you must have this value entered when the Apprenticeship has “ended”.

    “Actual off-the-job training hours for the individual apprentice at the end of the apprenticeship programme“.

    Do we know if this will include withdrawals, temp withdrawals and transfers, or just completions? Do we think there will be a grace period after “the end” before it becomes a full on error? I need to know asap so I can instruct the teams on what is required. If we have no grace period, and we’ve somehow missed a value, then what? What happens to funding and DAS payments if an apprentice just disappears from the ILR for a month? I can’t remember having seen it happen since the reforms.

    The announcement about this field said; “From 1 August 2020 providers must input the total hours of off-the-job training that have been delivered to apprentices who started new apprenticeships from 1 August 2019 into the ILR”, but there’s no mention in the 20/21 ILR spec of it only being required for starts from 01/08/2019, so is that still a thing? How would you know that if you hadn’t read/couldn’t lay your hands on that announcement?

     
    #445176

    cloud1
    Participant

    Hi Ruth,

    I had exactly the same conversation today! I was racking my brain over where I had seen that announcement and finally found it on an ESFA update from January 20. I would be surprised if it has changed since that update, I haven’t seen anything to the contrary, but as you say, I could not locate it in the specification (an oversight?). My understanding was that it would be used to validate against the new planned hours field which only went live on 1st August 19, so for starts prior to that, for ESFA transparency, it adds no real value.

    Perhaps it will be included in a future version or in the 20/21 apprenticeship rules once released?

    Would be good to get some clarity on this asap.

     
    #445203

    steveh
    Participant

    I think we have to assume it’s only for completers and validated off completion = 2? Can’t see any value to collecting it for withdrawals etc?

    On the bright side, that gives you between gateway and EPA to work it out, but I’d guess it’ll be an error if the field is blank when completion = 2? Of course, that’s not to say a placeholder value couldn’t be used and then updated before R14, in extremis…

     
    #445264

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Another thing I thought of, is what figure we enter for a restart after a break. I was told by the service desk that the Planned OTJ should just be the remainder, so I imagine Actual OTJ will be the same? Or perhaps not, and it should be the total of both periods. That will make it a bit more challenging to automate the pulling of data from our tracking system into our MI system.

     
    #445319

    OFFS
    Participant

    My guess was that as the guidance refers to collecting it ‘at the end of the apprenticeship programme’ it would be collected for any programme aims with an end date regardless of the completion status (so either 2,3 or 6).
    And for returners from BiL I agree it would probably be the Actual hours on the restarted programme aim rather than across both.
    Could be wrong though, will have to await further clarification (which on past performance might not be until the end of August…)

     
    #445384

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    We’ve got apprentices in mid August who could potentially require this Actual OTJ value. I guess we’ll just find out if and when they error! I always think there is a failing in the written rules if you have to go rummaging around in the the error file to work out what is and isn’t acceptable. It’s always embarrassing when I’m training staff, but I have to give them a lot of “it might be like this” and “we’re not sure if…”.

     
    #445452

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    OFFS – I’ve had confirmation it’s just Completions 🙂 They’re going to put more guidance in the Provider Support Manual, though that doesn’t help us advise our colleagues right now. Last year’s PSM was published on 2nd August.

     
    #445492

    cloud1
    Participant

    I have also had confirmation that this will only be applicable for students who started after 1st August 2019.

     
    #445495

    OFFS
    Participant

    Thanks Ruth & cloud1, both of those will make life a bit easier.
    Just shows the importance of people writing things clearly, consistently and correctly.

     
    #445578
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