Does anyone know where I can find a map of what areas/boroughs come under the Greater London Authority when AEB devolution applies? Just trying to find out how far outside London it stretches.
And if there are any other details maps for the other regions.
thanks, Kelly.April 26, 2018 at 3:48 pm #252507
Martin WestParticipantApril 26, 2018 at 4:04 pm #252515
London is the 32 boroughs (plus City of London) that make up the Greater London Authority, ie:
non-London is a bit more complicated and based on the combined authorities:
I swear there was a clear list on gov.uk at some point, but obviously I can’t find it now I want it…
April 26, 2018 at 4:28 pm #252524
- This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by steveh. Reason: added GLA map link
thanks Steve. thats useful.
I’ve contacted the ESFA to ask if theres a map but they will probably as helpful as normal.April 26, 2018 at 4:36 pm #252527
(it’s not working on my computer, but the internet here is only funny…)April 26, 2018 at 5:07 pm #252537
The GLA publishes a postcode map at https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/gla_postcode_map_a3_map1.pdf
As you will be know, postcode areas do not follow local government boundaries, so the situation may arise where a student wants to pursue a course funded by a particular mayoralty, has a council tax bill which proves they are a resident of that mayoralty, but the ONS postcode file says they live elsewhere. Do we know what ESFA plans to do about that?June 5, 2019 at 12:00 pm #373623
It will be full postcodes (like the disadvantage uplift is), not just the outward half, so I don’t think this is an issue? I’m not aware of a distinct postcode that is in two different Local Authorities (or even two different wards, but I might be wrong on that)?
So, for example, when a local authority boundary runs down the middle of a road, each side of the road will have different postcodes.
More of an issue are new builds with new postcodes which take a while to filter through to the postcode address file and the the ONS data…
June 5, 2019 at 7:03 pm #373753
- This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by steveh.
ONS states the following:
“Linking postal geographies to other geographic units is far from straightforward though, as: Postcode boundaries do not align with other geographic boundaries. If a unit postcode straddles a ward (or other) boundary, you have to decide which ward to allocate the data to. Our postcode directories take the grid reference of the postcode centroid and match this up to digital administrative boundaries. However, some addresses (and therefore data) will still inevitably be allocated to the ‘other’ area.” (https://www.ons.gov.uk/methodology/geography/ukgeographies/postalgeography)
So I think there is a slight possibility that the ONS Postcode Database may indicate that a person is not a resident of a Combined Authority, but they have a council tax bill which says otherwise. The SK13 2NS postcode, for example, is split between Hollingworth and Glossop i.e. Tameside (Greater Manchester) and High Peak. This is unlikely to affect learners since it’s an industrial estate rather than a residential area, but I expect we will encounter the issue somewhere!June 12, 2019 at 1:08 pm #375186
Well, I’ve learned something new today! I shall keep my ear to the ground for examples…June 12, 2019 at 1:55 pm #375196
More interesting is Delphside Road, Orrell, WN5 8TR where numbers 2-10 are in West Lancashire and numbers 12-28 are in Wigan. The ONS postcode file puts it in Wigan.June 12, 2019 at 5:58 pm #375235
Awesome. It’s going to be great fun keeping track of how much of the reduced ESFA funding is being used for those outside of the Combined Authority. What do you do once you’ve spent your allocation? Turn people away?June 13, 2019 at 3:29 pm #375452
Well, I mean, we don’t do that now when we’ve spent our allocation? One would assume there would be growth opportunities under the new model as there has been previously, so we’d just put in for that?
In fact, the *real* difficulty I think, is what to do if you have learners from a devolved authority with whom you do not have a relationship, particularly a 19-23 FL3. Think this is particularly going to be an issue with Bristol/Tees Valley/Cambs&Peterborough where they’ll only have a small number of grant funded providers and there will be specialist provision not available in their area…
June 13, 2019 at 4:29 pm #375460
- This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by steveh.
You’re right, we don’t switch off once we reach allocation currently. However, it is much easier to manage when it is one allocation for all of your provision. When you’re given just 14k for a subset of learners who live just over the hill then it is a different story. Just one extra person on an ITQ would put us at 6% over the allocation.June 14, 2019 at 8:37 am #375551
I’ve emailed the service desk to ask:
The ONS Postcode file uses postcode centroids to associate a postcode with an administrative district, but this isn’t always accurate. So this raises questions about how we attribute students to the areas of devolved AEB funding. For example, in Delphside Road, Orrell, WN5 8TR, numbers 2-10 are in West Lancashire and numbers 12-28 are in Wigan. The ONS postcode file puts WN5 8TR in Wigan. The hub will presumably provide a calculation of funding by devolved area. The FIS system may have a validation rule that all Greater Manchester residents have DAM codes requested by the Combined Authority. How will this be handled by your software? We need to know how to prepare our data and do our own calculations.June 21, 2019 at 12:28 pm #377025
I did point Ian Tress (product owner for FIS etc) at this thread a couple of weeks back and he said they were looking into it, so it’s not entirely off their radar.
One would *hope* that the postcode/SOF stuff is a warning until at least after R04 so we can get all of these wrinkles ironed out.June 24, 2019 at 9:36 am #377255
Ah, sorry, didn’t realise I’d not Reported Back to this thread.
I understand from the Agency that one of the new Devolved Area Monitoring fields/codes will allow us to basically say “no, this postcode is definitely in the area we’ve picked the SOF for, please do not make it error”, see the very last sub-clause of the new LSDPostcode_02 validation rule:
For starts on or after 1 August 2019 (LearningDelivery.LearnStartDate => 2019-08-01), that are adult skills funded (LearningDelivery.Fundmodel = 35), the Learning start date postcode (LearningDelivery.LSDPostcode) must be valid on the learning aim start date (LearningDelivery.LearnStartDate) for the Source of funding listed.
(error where LearningDelivery.LearnStartDate < Postcodes.Master_postcodes.EffectiveFrom date for the LearningDelivery.LSDpostcode where (LearningDeliveryFAM.LearnDelFAMType = SOF <> MCAGLA_SOF.SOFCode)
(This is not triggered for traineeships (ProgType = 24)),
Providers with an organisation type of Specialist Designated College (LearningProvider.UKPRN = Org_Details.UKPRN and LegalOrgType = USDC),
Restarts (LearningDelivery.LearnDelFAMType = RES)
Postcode exclusions (LearningDeliveryFAM.LearnDelFAMType = DAM and LearningDeliveryFAM.LearnDelFAMCode = 001)July 19, 2019 at 12:14 pm #382772
Is there an overall spreadsheet out yet showing whether a individual postcode is attached to a devolved area? or is that something were all awaiting?July 21, 2019 at 5:28 pm #383050
There are too many postcodes to fit in a spreadsheet, you need to put the ONS Postcode File into a database if you’re planning to crunch the numbers yourself.
Alternatively you can look up a postcode on several online services such as http://www.mycounciltax.org.uk which tells you what local authority(s) cover a postcode area. To cross-reference local authorities with mayoralties you can use a table which I’ve made available at http://www.petertalbot.net/files/_BQht0OMD0SGbVa9YkjM2/
Note the “wave” column is intended to denote when the devolution takes effect and reflects the past uncertainty about the plans in Yorkshire.
Hope this helps.July 22, 2019 at 8:48 am #383130
I was at a GMCA Event last week and they said the ESFA will be issuing data files to show which postcodes fall within which Combined Authority.July 22, 2019 at 9:04 am #383149SFA STAFF
I can confirm that the ESFA will be publishing a csv file mapping postcodes to their funding bodies, and the corresponding SOF for ILR returns, on Monday 29th July.July 24, 2019 at 1:16 pm #383981
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