Change of Employer / Docs & ILR

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Ruth CJ 1 month, 2 weeks ago.

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  • ry.h
    Participant

    Hi,

    When changing an employer (not including redundancy) is it right that they need to re-sign the Commitment Statement, Application Document, Funding Document?

    When updating the ILR do you close off the old AIMs with a Completion status or withdrawal reason? And then create a new AIM with the new start date for the new employer, original start date, new ern, and new TNP values for the new employer?

    Thanks

     
    #363456

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Hi Ryan,

    Other than the Commitment statement, we don’t use those terms, so I’m not sure what they are. Since the Commitment Statement is an agreement between the Provider, Apprentice and Employer, then yes the new employer will need to sign a new one.

    Read the Provider Support Manual paragraphs 625-629. That should tell you everything.

     
    #363458

    ry.h
    Participant

    Thanks Ruth. I have read the Guidance however still have a few questions:

    Would you exempt activities completed by the previous employer or would they appear on the new signed documents for the training provider and employer to sign?

    What would you do with how previous activities have been completed as regards to things like Skillscan? Would the new employer have access to those details to make sure the apprentice is ready before doing their EPA?

    What if the learner changes their hours or go from full times to part time with their new employer? Does that get updated on the new commitment statement and ILR?

    What if start and end dates change? Do you create new AIMs for this on the ILR and close down the old ones as a withdrawal?

     
    #364153

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Honestly, I don’t know all those answers, as that’s something our delivery team would manage.

    If it’s just a change employer with no real gap, you cannot change the Start or Planned End Dates. If there was a gap, it’s not a change in employer, it’s a withdrawal and a restart, which is different. The bit of guidance I directed you to is a change of employer. If there was a gap, then treat it as a straight withdrawal. When they re-enrol, you’d do a new skills scan etc, exactly as you would with any new apprenticeship.

    If it was a genuine change of employer with no gap, and they changed from full to part time, the only thing you’d do is recalculate the OTJ element based on this point on, plus anything outstanding/extra from before the employer change.

     
    #364161

    ry.h
    Participant

    Hi Ruth,

    Thanks for your quick reply.

    If there is a gap due isn’t this learning covered by the ESFA until a new employer is found up to 12 weeks as per the guidance? In which case a new employer would carry on the learning so it would not be a withdrawal and restart? And the start and end date would remain the same as you mentioned?

     
    #364184

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Hello,

    Only if it was redundancy. If they left of their own accord, or were sacked, then it’s a withdrawal. There are a whole batch of other rules for redundancy.

     
    #364189

    jessicar
    Participant

    Does anyone combine their sort of enrolment form (with all the ILR collection requirements) together with the commitment statement?

    We ve gone done the line probably by accident and past processes, that these are two separate documents, even though quite a bit of the information is repeated across the 2 ie start dates, apprentice course etc.

    Its correct that you have to sign a new commitment statement, but would you have to re-collect all the ILR data, ie Household situation, LLDD info etc?

    But if you record the enrolment with the new employer (after a gap) as a restart and its a new enrolment then i suppose you would…

     
    #364495

    ry.h
    Participant

    Hi,

    On this again. Do you record a new EmpStat, DateEmpStatApp, EmpId, AgreeId for the new employer?

     
    #375204

    AnniL
    Participant

    Hi

    On the new commitment statement do you put the start date as the date with the new employer or the start date of the apprenticeship?

     
    #387274

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    If you’re starting someone again after a withdrawal, I’d say treat the new enrolment exactly as you would any other new enrolment, so use the new start date). The only difference is that you will have reduced the price.

    A genuine change of employer, with no gap, might be slightly different. You might want to reference both dates in the paperwork. I guess the most important one is the date on which you started the contract with this employer, I’m not an expert on the commitment statement though.

     
    #387318

    ry.h
    Participant

    What do you need to update in the ILR for a straight change of employer? Do you change the existing records or add a new empstat record?

     
    #387425

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    You can find the change of employer instruction on the Provider Support Manual paragraphs 646 – 650.

    So new empstat, new TNP, and possibly new ACT. All three of those need the same start date (unless the ACT hasn’t changed, in which case you leave that one).

     
    #387437
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