Changes to 20% OJT requirement

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This topic contains 60 replies, has 20 voices, and was last updated by  G_45 3 days, 18 hours ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 61 total)
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  • Martin West
    Participant

    The new guidance indicates a significant change to the previous and the current funding rules, for 2017/18 the rules stated ‘By paid hours we mean the apprentice’s contracted hours’, the current rules state: To attract government funding at least 20% of the apprentice’s paid hours.

    At various on boarding webinars it has been stated that the OTJ calculation should include all contracted hours and the ESFA have also confirmed to FE Week that “their time” refers to contracted employment hours and I like many others have always interpreted this to mean that those with over 30 weekly contracted hours would have to undertake more OJT than those on the standard 30 hours even thought this was thought to be an unfair requirement.

    It now appears that all previous guidance was incorrect in that a full time Apprentice is capped for funding purpose at 30 hours for the calculation of their OJT requirement and that a relaxation has been applied to the OJT requirement for those who started prior to the annual leave rule change.

    I would suggest for clarification of the current funding rules that the following paragraphs from the new guidance are added to the funding rules.

    66. For starts in the period 1 May 2017 to 31 July 2018 (prior to the annual leave rule change) if the deduction of annual leave is the sole reason why there is non-compliance against the off-the-job training policy (i.e. annual leave has been deducted before this deduction was part of the policy) then this will not be considered a funding error.

    69. For funding purposes 30 hours represents a full-time role and should be used in all calculations, even if the apprentice works more than 30 hours. Part-time working should be proportional, using the formula in the apprenticeship funding rules.

    In view of what I think is a change and not a clarification of policy I think most providers will need to review the OJT requirement for all Apprentices.

     
    #358602

    Martin West
    Participant

    They may also need to update the Off-the-job_training_FLOWCHART as this still says:

    Off-the-job training must make up at least 20% of the apprentice’s contracted hours, over the total duration of the apprentice’s planned training period.

     
    #358630

    Kate
    Participant

    Thank you Martin, when would this revised calculation come into affect? Would you say for any learners who starts from March?

    Many thanks,
    Kate

     
    #359119

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Kate,
    As it is a requirement that the commitment statement must include the amount of off-the-job training that will be delivered to meet the minimum 20% requirement, where the Apprentice has a contact for more than 30 hours per week the commitment statement would be overstating the OJT hours and may need to be recalculated based on this latest guidance, the assumption is that this could apply to those who started on this funding model since 1st May 2017.
    HTH

     
    #359127

    G_45
    Participant

    Martin,

    When you say:

    “It now appears that all previous guidance was incorrect in that a full time Apprentice is capped for funding purpose at 30 hours for the calculation of their OJT requirement…”

    Where did you source this information? I cannot find anything (not that I’m doubting you).

     
    #359135

    Martin West
    Participant
    #359153

    G_45
    Participant

    Martin – literally just found it not 5 minutes ago!

     
    #359155

    Matt Collishaw
    Participant

    Thanks Martin – I have emailed the service desk suitably

     
    #359181

    liamryan
    Participant

    The left hand at the ESFA doesn’t seem to have spoken to the right hand yet. If you change the hours per week in the commitment statement speadsheet (in the link provided) from 30 to 60 then the OTJ hours still double.

     
    #359193

    Martin West
    Participant

    The guidance note 5 on the first TAB:
    The provider should enter the number of hours the apprentice works on average each week. Note that Full Time = 30 hours. You should use 30 even if the apprentice works more than 30 hours. Part-time and zero-hours contracts – refer to guidance in apprenticeship funding rules.
    HTH

     
    #359195

    steveh
    Participant

    Surely it’s the guidance note that’s wrong, not *EVERYTHING* ESFA HAVE SAID OR DONE FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS???

    They’re a week early for an April Fools’ gag…

     
    #359451

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Steve,
    I expect it is a way of relaxing the requirement as against changing it as the Minister has always insisted it will not be changed from 20%, it is still 20% but now 20% of something different to contracted hours.
    At least it will be less of an issue now for Providers,the ESFA and Auditors.

     
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by  Martin West.
    #359455

    steveh
    Participant

    Sure, but you can’t just sneak this out like nothing has changed…

     
    #359458

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Steve,
    The fact it was published at 4:33pm on a Friday gives an indication they did.
    Surprised FE Week not picked up on this yet.

     
    #359464

    nlinford
    Participant
    #359470

    PaulB
    Participant

    I’d like to gauge people’s views on amending the commitment statement and apprenticeship agreement. In light of the ‘clarification’, for aprrentices starts from 1st August 2018, should we all now go back, amend all of these and re-issue to employers and apprentices to re-sign? The ESFA themselves refer to the commitment statement as a ‘working document’ and should be updated during the apprenticeship as required.

    The 30 hours cap will significantly reduce the number of OTJ hours required for our learners, some by around 100 hours reduction.

     
    #359740

    Steve Bowler
    Participant

    I’ve already sent the Data Service an email asking the same question and I doubt I’ll be the only one. I’ll let you know when I hear back 🙂

    Steve

     
    #359749

    lisa.claydon
    Participant

    Hi All
    im still a little confused with this update, are we backdating all commitment statements to the start of 18/19 to reflect this change

     
    #359767

    Matt Collishaw
    Participant

    Hi All,

    So I am right in assuming that this ’30 hour cap’ is for all starts From August 2018, not May 2017?

    I would hate to be told we have all been wrong for a second time. I mean imagine reading the below and not knowing there is a 30 hour cap 🙂

    P31 To attract government funding at least 20% of the apprentice’s paid hours, over the planned duration of the training period within the apprenticeship (for standards this
    is called the practical period, which ends at the gateway for end-point assessment),
    must be spent on off-the-job training

    Can i ask how others are proceeding, are people waiting for this to be written in to funding rules before changing all our processes or are we taking the FE report as we can change all our processes.

    Thanks all

     
    #360117

    steveh
    Participant

    I’ve just spoken to Nick Linford, who has been discussing this with senior ESFA people, and the current advice is CHANGE NOTHING YET! We’re being told that further clarification* will arrive next week, so everyone needs to wait for that…

    *yes, I know, I know…

     
    #360123

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Matt,
    As reported to FE week: the ESFA has said the 30 hour cap to off-the-job calculation has always been in funding rules then this must mean it applies to all starts from May 2017.

    You could recalculate or just hold back knowing you will have a buffer in what is currently recorded.
    HTH

     
    #360124

    steveh
    Participant

    Apparently someone at the Apprenticeship Conference pointed out to Keith Smith that one of their own examples in V1 of ones of the documents said 40 hours per week would equal 8 hours OTJ, so I’m not sure how they can hold the “it’s always been like this” line…

    Anyway, DO NOTHING TIL NEXT WEEK!

     
    #360131

    Taylor26
    Participant

    Just when I’ve managed to create and negotiate a plan with Senior Managers to put this to delivery staff, learners and employers the ESFA are now going to issue further clarification? This is so frustrating. I do hope the ESFA confirm it very early next week…

    I’ve had to hire trolls to guard my office to prevent staff with pitchforks breaking through.
    This would be the… 4th? change surrounding 20%?

    First there was no clarification as to whether annual leave was or wasn’t included.
    Then it was confirmed that annual leave was included…
    Then for 18/19 annual leave was taken out…
    Now, its only up to 30 hours with another possible change on the horizon?

    Blimey…

     
    #360152

    steveh
    Participant

    Just in case you missed this (given it was released at half six on a friday, this seems likely…):

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/apprenticeships-off-the-job-training

    In response to feedback since this document was issued on Friday 22 March, paragraph 69 and Annex A are redacted and under review, in relation to the use of 30 hours. Providers should continue to work to the apprenticeship funding rules and not change any training plans with learners. We will publish a further update next week.

    Definitely not going to any ESFA-organised events in breweries, think I might end up a bit thirsty…

     
    #360567

    stewartsegal
    Participant

    Whatever the outcome of these very strange deliberations I think it would wrong for the ESFA to audit and clawback any funding from providers since 2017 unless of course they didnt meet the 30 hours minimum.

    If a provider has always used 30 hours I assume they should continue to do so.

    Lets hope the statement cones soon and is clear!?! Hope they clarify what ‘paid hours’ means. Its not the same as contractual hours. paid hours technically does not include lunch periods unless the contract says it does but are holidays paid hours?

     
    #360724
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