Changes to 20% OJT requirement

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This topic contains 60 replies, has 20 voices, and was last updated by  G_45 1 year, 2 months ago.

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  • stewartsegal

    Martin, I agree the vast majority of people do not get paid a lunch hour so its not in their paid hours but it might technically be in their contracted or working hours because you are contracted from 9-5pm but just not paid for it all. The rules (and commitment statement) still use working hours.

    Ive seen the ‘apology’ on the newsletter but surely they should put a statement on the website for the on the job page.

    And still no clarification for those who previously used the 30 hours.



    Martin, working hours are different from paid hours. some would say that working hours include your lunch hour even though its not paid because you are ‘contracted’ from say 9-5pm. the commitment statement and rules still use working hours as a term….you’d have thought that given this error they would have taken the chance to make it all clear….but at least it means we can look forward to some more myth busters!!



    One additional issue is now having a lack of confidence that the rest of the document is right – as they haven’t released a change list with the document i ASSUME that they have only updated paragraph 69 but i’m going to have to do a line by line comparison to be absolutely sure nothing else has been snuck in…

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  darrenvidler.


    I agree with stewartsegal

    Quote …It now makes no sense to have a standard holiday deduction. It should be whatever holidays the apprentice gets.

    For us, with this new calculation the number of OTJ hours has increased a great deal but the actual amount of hours that the Apprentices that we are working with actually have available is much less when you take into account their actual number of holidays as well as the fact they are shiftworkers who work a 4 day week.

    Luckily we are still at the planning stage for our next cohort but we need to get this right before we finalise with the employer and the learner.


    Hi All,

    Linked to OTJ calculation but a question re holiday allowance.

    If the practical period for an apprentice is higher than 53 weeks do we pro-rata up the 28 days?

    e.g. 56 weeks / 53 * 28 = 29.5

    And vice-versa if they get replaced with a second employer, are the holiday days pro-rated down?


    Martin West

    Hi Matthew,
    It gets more complicated the more I look at it, but your principle is correct excepting for those who work less than a 5 day week where you also need to pro-rate the holiday for that.

    This is what I ended up with and it seems to match the ESFA calculations

    ((((Apprentice Paid Hours/week/Days contracted per week)*Days contracted per week)*(Training Duration in Weeks))-(Days contracted per week*IF(Days Annual Holiday Allowance>28,Days Annual Holiday Allowance/Days contracted per week,28/Days contracted per week)*(Training Duration in Weeks/52))*(Apprentice Paid Hours/week/Days contracted per week))*0.2




    Hi – Has anyone seen an update from the ESFA regarding this as we were advised we would receive something this week?

    Thank you


    Martin West

    Updated on the 3rd April: Apprenticeships: off-the-job training


    Rhea Maughan

    Hi All,

    Levy paying employer here trying to calculate the OTJL hours for some of employees taking part in an apprenticeship programme so we can make sure it’s correct in their contract/apprenticeship agreement – unfortunately our provider doesn’t seem 100% sure of the calculation themselves so hoped someone here may be able to help!

    Firstly, I see that we are still basing the OTJL on working hours and NOT a max of 30 per week (until the ESFA changes this again no doubt 😐 )

    So, we have a full timer on 35 working hours per week (40hrs with an hours paid lunch so using 35hrs as my figure here), the standard is CSS L3 and we have agreed a 15 month duration. Is the following correct for the OTJL hours:

    52 weeks per year / 12 months = 4.3 average weeks per month x 15 month programme = 64.9 weeks total duration…

    5.6 weeks days stat’ AL /12 months = 0.46 weeks average AL per month x 15 month = 6.9 weeks AL over duration…

    64.9 weeks total duration – 6.9 weeks stat. leave = 58 weeks total working weeks over duration…

    58 weeks x 35 working hours per week = 2030 working hours over total duration / 100 x 20% = 406 hours of OTJL required

    TAH DAH….. ??????

    Any help appreciated!



    Watching with interest Rhea Maughan. Our next cohort of apprentices get paid dinner breaks and we hadn’t considered taking that time out of the calculation.

    Apart from that, my calculation for our apprentices was the same as yours (although over 18 months.)



    Just looking at the ‘reissued’ Apprenticeship OTJ Training policy and examples, paragraph 53 says “at least 20% of the apprentice’s time, from the start date of the apprenticeship to the planned end date of the apprenticeship, should be spent on OTJ training”.

    Paragraph 35 says that this 20% is the minimum that should be delivered over the time they are engaged on programme.

    Maybe it’s the way I’m reading this but para 53 implies that if an apprentice goes out of funding then there is no additional ‘top up’ to the minimum 20% OTJ they will have done. Para 35 appears to contradict this as it says ‘time spent on programme’.

    Does anyone have any thoughts about what happens when an apprentice goes OOF? Do you think they should engaging in extra OTJ training on top of their already completed 20%?

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