Completion Payments

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Martin West 2 weeks, 5 days ago.

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  • GaynorLF
    Participant

    HI

    Can anyone confirm when the completion payment is received for standards please?

    is it when the learner has completed all learning activities and End Point Assessment (even though we do no know pass/fail result) as we report in the Programme Ain as a completions status of 2=completed learning activities with an out come of 8=not yet known.
    OR
    is it when we subsequently change the out come to 1= achieved when we have the results back from the EPAO (in which case do we not get an outcome payment if they fail and the out come would be recorded as 3=No achievement
    THANKS;)

     
    #349431

    OFFS
    Participant

    Hi, From the funding technical guide, para 41 (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/722324/Apprenticeships_funding_technical_guide_V4.pdf):
    “The completion element is earned when you record a ‘Learning actual end date’ in the ILR and the ‘Completion status’ is recorded using code 2 (‘The learner has completed the learning activities leading to the learning aim’). You will earn this funding for the month that the ‘Learning actual end date’ takes place, even if this month is different to the ‘Learning planned end date’ of the programme.”
    The Outcome value doesn’t affect it, at the moment anyway. I know there is a new Outcome value 8 (Learning activities are complete but the outcome is not yet known) being added for starts after July 2019 but not sure if/how that will affect funding.

     
    #349454

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi OFFS,
    Outcome code 8 ‘Learning activities are complete but the outcome is not yet known’ has existed since 2015 when they replaced the similar codes 4 and 5.
    HTH

     
    #349467

    OFFS
    Participant

    Thanks Martin, very true, I forgot it was just a new guidance para on using it next year.

     
    #349469

    MAmstell
    Participant

    Hi all,

    So to confirm you can claim the full completion with the 2,1 coding before receiving the pass/fail mark from the EPA?

    Thanks,
    Melissa

     
    #349647

    OFFS
    Participant

    Hi Melissa, I know rather less about the precise requirements/definition of completion, as opposed to how the ILR funds it. Others may be a better source but from the provider funding rules https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/733050/1819_Provider_Rules_v1.0.pdf:

    Completion
    The evidence pack must include the following:
    P293.1 All records and evidence of completion. This must be available within three months of you reporting it in the ILR.
    P293.1.1 For standards, evidence of completion would include written confirmation from the EPAO to you about the outcome of the end-point assessment, evidence that the minimum duration requirement has been met, and, where applicable, evidence that the employer’s co-investment has been collected and recorded.
    P293.1.2 For frameworks, evidence of completion would include evidence that the apprentice has undertaken all mandatory elements of the framework, evidence that the minimum duration requirement has been met, and, where applicable, evidence that the employer’s co-investment
    has been collected and recorded.

     
    #350424

    simonl
    Participant

    Jumping on an old thread here but can anyone confirm, do they need to have sat all elements of EPA before we can claim completion?
    For example a learner has passed a test, failed an observation twice so we did not carry out the discussion so would this mean we are not able to claim completion unless we carried out the PD?

     
    #376326

    Martin West
    Participant

    The EPAO will need to confirm completion and grade and that they have applied for the completion certificate.
    Partial completion is a fail.

     
    #376336

    simonl
    Participant

    Hi Martin

    I thought we could claim the completion even if they fail as long as they have sat all elements? So in our case this would be a fail as they have not sat all elements but if she had sat them all and failed we could claim completion?

     
    #376338

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    Completion does not mean achievement they are not the same.
    For the completion payment the Apprentice must have completed the end point assessment irrespective of the result.
    I cannot find any documentation that they must sit all the elements, where did you get this from?

     
    #376342

    simonl
    Participant

    The funding rule guidance just says

    “For standards, evidence of completion would include written confirmation from the EPAO to you about the outcome of the end-point assessment, evidence that the minimum duration requirement has been met, and, where applicable, evidence that the employer’s co-investment has been collected and recorded”.

    I am trying to find out if they need to have sat all the elements to be classed as a completer (but not achieved)

     
    #376344

    Martin West
    Participant

    In the real word I expect an Apprentice may fail the first element of the EPA and then not continue with any remaining elements, the EPAO will still inform you of the failed outcome which you can use as evidence of completion.
    As I said I do not know of any requirement that they must sit all elements for this scenario, they would need to sit all elements to be classed as a completer and achiever.
    Is it only you that has concerns over this?

     
    #376352

    simonl
    Participant

    I was advised by someone else that they had to sit all elements but I wanted to double check this as you mention the funding rules don’t refer to all elements being sat.

    Thanks Martin I will try the service desk see if anyone can confirm for me.

     
    #376365

    GaynorLF
    Participant

    Hi. I’m resurrecting this thread as I still can’t get my head around release dates of completion payment (After 1/8/19) – even after looking at the following document:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/818310/Q_A_formatted_v2.pdf
    as they provide these 2 answers:

    Q. Can you confirm that recording the learner outcomes with completion status as 2,8 in
    the Outcome field will trigger the completion payment?
    A. For learners that complete their learning on or after 1 August 2019, Completion payment is paid upon completion (code 2) and the EPA having been completed.

    Q. Can you please explain how the completion payment is released? Based on
    completions of EPA or achievement of EPA?
    A. The completion incentive, which is earned when an apprentice completes their end point assessment of the apprenticeship standard, is triggered based on data in the following Learning Delivery fields: Completion status, Outcome and Achievement date. This incentive is paid in full once the programme has been recorded on the ILR as completed (Completion status code 2) and achieved or not achieved (Outcome code 1 or 3), the Achievement date is used as the trigger date for the incentive.

    The first answer does not mention that the outcome code 1 or 3 is required to trigger the payment. The second answer states outcome code 1 or 3 IS required to release the completion payment.
    Reading this it appears that the completion payment is only earned when 1 or 3 is recorded (and nothing is earned if we report 8-awaiting outcome..)

     
    #399834

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    Yes and no, as in 2019/20 you record completion status as 1 not 2 when the outcome is 8, you will never have a situation where it is 2 and 8.

     
    #399841

    GaynorLF
    Participant

    Thanks Martin

    So, am I then correct in thinking that we are totally reliant on EPAs providing us with an outcome (pass or fail) before we get the completion payment?

     
    #399843

    MartinOutlaw
    Participant

    Hi

    Martin, why would you never have a situation where it is 2 and 8?

    Surely the completion status changes to 2 when the EPA has been completed, do you get the result from the EPAO immediately, because we don’t.

    R01 we returned learners as 2 and 8, they did not throw out errors, and the indicative funding reports show the payments received. I know we don’t have the Apps monthly payment report, but the actual payment received is in line with the indicative.

    I have an outstanding incident with the service desk since mid August that seeks clarification on exactly what to update and when, but have not received anything other than a holding response as it is not R01 / R13 / R02 / R14 specific.

    Martin

     
    #399870

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    All very complicated, the completion status has changed for 19/20 for standards but you can have 2 and 8 for frameworks
    ILR Specification
    Completion Status
    For apprenticeship standards, the learning activities for the programme aim include both the training and end point assessment. Code 2 must only be used for the apprenticeship standard programme aim where both the training and end point assessment activities have been completed.

    Outcome
    For apprenticeship standards, learners that end on or after 1 August 2019, Code 8 ‘Learning activities are complete, but the outcome is not yet known’ must be used at the end of learning and prior to the end point assessment period. Once the End point assessment has taken place this is then updated accordingly.

    From the funding rules
    645. In order to be recorded as ‘Completed’ (Completion status code 2), both the training and end point assessment activities for the programme must be completed. An end point assessment that has resulted in a failed outcome can be classed as complete as long as the learner reaches the end of the end point assessment period, rather than withdrawing. If either of these have not been completed, then the programme aim cannot be recorded with Completion status code 2.

     
    #399881

    MartinOutlaw
    Participant

    Hi Martin, Thank you for you reply, it is indeed very complicated, and not helped by the use of language.

    Outcome
    Once the End point assessment has taken place this is then updated accordingly.

    If you have not yet received the result of the EPA, then there is nothing to update the outcome with, so this does not preclude a 2 and 8.

    The Q&A in the link above has
    Q -Can you confirm that recording the learner outcomes with completion status as 2,8 in
    the Outcome field will trigger the completion payment?
    A -For learners that complete their learning on or after 1 August 2019, Completion payment is paid upon completion (code 2) and the EPA having been completed.

    Can’t they just say yes or no, they didn’t answer the question at all. This is exactly why everybody is confused.

    Martin

     
    #399891

    GaynorLF
    Participant

    I still don’t understand why we would not have 2,8 to report for a standard.

    If a learner completes their EPA on 24/09/19 – we should then report completion status as 2. Our EPAO can then take up to 10 working days to provide us with a result. Surely we have no option other than to report Outcome as 8 until the EPAO notify us of pass/fail – at which point we can then update the outcome to 1 or 3 accordingly??

     
    #400080

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Martin and Gaynor,
    The simple way to remember the requirement for 2019 on is that for frameworks it can be 2 and 8 but for standards it can only be 1 and 8.

    Your EPAO may take a number of days to provide you with the results but until known cannot be reported as complete as they may have not, that is why the completion status stays at 1 until the results are known.

    Why they have chosen to do it that way is another question, but I expect the answer would be to retain the principle that the final payment is only paid once the completion status is recorded as 2 and the outcome is known.
    HTH

     
    #400097
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