When a learner has completed all training activities and goes to End Point Assessment, can you end them at that point as a Completion in your MIS, and therefore draw down the final 20% funding.
We do not get notified if the learner has passed or failed, and all certificates go direct to the learners.January 15, 2020 at 2:45 pm #420687
Contact your EPAO as they should notify you of the results of the EPA.January 15, 2020 at 2:57 pm #420694
So if the learner achieves or not, as I understand it the money is still released as all training is complete. Is that your understanding?January 15, 2020 at 4:11 pm #420726
No the EPA must be completed pass of fail and the completion payment is made after the Achievement date (completion date for Apprenticeships) has been entered.January 15, 2020 at 4:57 pm #420835
Yes, you do get the achievement payment as long as they sit the EPA. To trigger the completion payment, you need to record the Completion status as 2, but you’re not supposed to do that until they’ve sat the EPA. Once they’ve passed the gateway, you can record an Actual End Date, and an Outcome of 8, but the Completion Status should stay as Continuing until they’ve finished the EPA, and you’ve got a final result. You’d then change the Completion Status and Outcome, and add the Achievement Date (even if it was a fail).
See PSM P643-P645.January 15, 2020 at 4:59 pm #420837
Can someone please help clarify the guidance states:
*Because of the ILR changes for 2019 to 2020, the completion payment for apprentices who complete a standard from 1 August 2019 or later, is now earned on the ‘achievement date’ rather than the ‘learning actual end date’. We have updated all references accordingly.
Where are the two dates now being recorded as we currently only change the “actual end date” once EPA is passed.January 16, 2020 at 9:32 am #420946
See Page 42/43 of the PSM
4.7.15 Learning planned end date
317. For apprenticeship standards, the Learning planned end date must include both the training and end point assessment period for continuing learners into the 2019 to 2020 year.
318. For new starts on or after 1st August 2019, the planned end date must only include the learning related to the learning aim and not include the end point assessment period.
4.7.16 Learning actual end date
319. For apprenticeship standards on a programme aim, where the learner has completed all learning activities and began the End point assessment period prior to 1st August 2019, the Learning Actual End date for the current year will continue to include the end point assessment.
320. For apprenticeship standards on a programme aim, where the learner has not completed all learning activities by 1st August 2019, the Learning Actual End Date will be completed after all learning has taken place and does NOT include the end point assessment period.
4.7.17 Achievement date
321. For apprenticeship standards, the achievement date must be returned for continuing learners where all learning activities have ended, and the end point assessment has taken place on or after 1 August 2019. Once this date is returned the Completion status and associated Outcome must be updated accordingly.January 16, 2020 at 9:51 am #420954
Thanks Martin. We have learners who have met gateway (so all learning is now complete) and are awaiting EPA – reading the guidance then I am slightly confused on how to record this on the ILR. Do we have to wait until the EPA is sat to record as complete and record the end date, if we do this then the learners are going to appear as over their EED as the EPA time was not accounted for as per guidance.
On the other hand if we complete the learners and add the end date as their last day of learning then this will trigger the completion payment although EPA hasn’t been sat yet which I understand isn’t correct either?January 16, 2020 at 9:58 am #420960
It has all changed for 19/20 and the completion payment is triggered by the Achievement date which has been added to record Apprenticeship completions.
The actual end date recorded is different for those who begun EPA prior to and after I Aug 2019, the link is a document to show this and the completion status and outcome codes required.
HTHJanuary 16, 2020 at 10:19 am #420970
Many thanks, that’s very useful.January 16, 2020 at 10:22 am #420974
Could I just clarify, for Learners that have completed learning activities and begun EPA prior to 1 Aug 19 do we need to change their Outcome to 8 or is it still ok to leave these particular learners at Status 1 Outcome 9 until the EPA is complete (i.e Actual end date & Achieved date) and then record Status 2 and Outcome 1 or 3 as appropriate?
MTIAJanuary 23, 2020 at 1:37 pm #422687
The PSM guidance is:
643. When the training period for the apprenticeship standard is complete, but the end point assessment period is incomplete, the Outcome must be recorded as code 8 ‘Learning activities are complete but the outcome is not yet known’. When the end point assessment period for the apprenticeship standard is complete, the Outcome field must be update accordingly. If the apprenticeship standard has resulted in a failure at the end point assessment, the Outcome on the programme aim must be recorded as code 3 ‘No achievement’. If the apprenticeship standard is successfully achieved following the end point assessment, the Outcome on the programme aim must be recorded as code 1 ‘Achieved’.
Where do you get outcome code 9 from as it is not a valid code for the ILR?January 23, 2020 at 2:13 pm #422699
Thanks Martin. At the moment we would leave those who have entered the EPA period before 1 Aug 2019 as Status 1 Continuing Learning Outcome 9 Study Continuing until they complete the EPA and change status to 2 Complete and Outcome to 1 or 3. Was just confused as to whether we need this to be Status 1 Outcome 8 until they complete the EPA at which point we could do the same (2 & 1 or 3) with an actual and achieved date being the same. Does that make sense?January 23, 2020 at 3:59 pm #422735
9 is a hangover from an old ILR value. I think some systems allow it, but strip it out in the ILR xml output. We do similar so we can make Outcome a “required field”. Continuers actually have a blank Outcome in the ILR.January 23, 2020 at 4:17 pm #422741
Ah, thanks, Ruth, I can see that now I have looked for it!
The PSM Guidance for use of the Outcome of 8 for those that have completed learning but not the EPA applies then regardless of whether they completed the learning prior to 1 Aug 2019 – that is where I am uncertain.January 23, 2020 at 4:26 pm #422743
I’d say so. We always try to use Outcome 8 as soon as they’re done.
The oddity now is that you leave the Completion Status as 1, and the Actual End Date blank until you have any actual Outcome and “Achievement” Date.January 23, 2020 at 4:35 pm #422747
Thanks Ruth, yes, it certainly seems odd! And some with no dates completed until after the EPA and some with an actual end date prior to the EPA! Super! Thanks for the clarifying as ever!January 23, 2020 at 4:39 pm #422749
Outcome 9 was last used when the ILR was a flat file but has not been valid since the change to XML 7 years ago.
Looks like some providers did not get around to removing it from the list of outcome codes.
For those who completed learning prior to 1/8/2019 then the last day in learning is when the EPA has been completed but as you say outcome code 8 also applies to those after 1/8/2019 but the last day in learning is when training ends prior to the EPA (Gateway point).
HTHJanuary 23, 2020 at 4:44 pm #422751
Thanks Martin!January 23, 2020 at 4:55 pm #422755
Hi all, a quick question on the Outcome code and Achievement Date, so a learner takes EPA and fails so following the rules we record the Achievement date and Code 3. But what do I do if the learner re-sits EPA and passes. Can I can the Code 3 to 1 even through it is now after the Achievement date recorded on the ILR?January 24, 2020 at 8:16 am #422824
Is it acceptable to change the planned end date if this has been entered incorrectly(there have already been 2 submissions since this was entered), this is all brand new so obviously some errors will happen, is it as simple as amending the ILR to reflect the correct dates.
Many ThanksJanuary 24, 2020 at 10:42 am #422869
If we had an apprentice who had failed their EPA, and we knew they were going to resit, we would just leave them as 1/8 with a blank PED and Achievement Date until they’d tried again. It’s the same way we work for any qual where a student has multiple opportunities to sit. We’d only close it as a fail if we knew they weren’t going to try again.January 24, 2020 at 11:02 am #422878
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.