EPA resit costs

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Home Forums Data issues EPA resit costs

This topic contains 22 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  megan1 2 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 23 posts - 1 through 23 (of 23 total)
  • Author
    Posts

  • Sue Bishop
    Spectator

    This is a hypothetical question. We negotiate a price for an apprenticeship standard with a levy employer which is £500 below the band maximum.

    The cost of the EPA is £600, which is included in the original negotiated price.

    The learner fails all or some aspects of EPA and needs to resit.

    As we have not used the maximum band value in the first instance, can we claim £500 towards the resit and if so, how do we claim for this on the ILR?

    Many thanks,

    Sue

     
    #264283

    Martin Locock
    Spectator

    I don’t think the band maximum is intended to be used in that way: once the price is agreed, that sets the delivery and EPA price.

     
    #264699

    Martin West
    Spectator

    Hi Sue,
    Guidance from the Funding Rules
    A new price may also be negotiated if the apprentice requires additional learning for re-taking mandatory qualifications or their end-point assessment.

    Guidance from the ILR support manual:
    The assessment price is later re-negotiated (for example to include additional costs or further assessment). A new end point assessment price of £3,000 is agreed to apply from 1 May 2018. The financial details for the programme are updated to reflect this:
    AFinType AFinCode AFinDate AFinAmount
    TNP 1 01/08/2017 13000
    TNP 2 01/02/2018 2000
    TNP 2 01/05/2018 3000

    Where this would take you over the cap then this is an issue but most cover this in the employer contract by including that any addition costs in excess of the funding cap will be paid by the employer.
    HTH

     
    #264714

    Sue Bishop
    Spectator

    Thank you, Martin. In theory then, I could state TNP 2 of £600 being the initial EPA cost and then add a further TNP 2 of, say £800, meaning £200 resit cost? I’m guessing a further TNP 1 with a revised date of negotiated price would also have to be added with the £200 resit cost included?

    Let’s see how many errors that will give me!

    Appreciate your support, Martin.

    Regards,

    Sue

     
    #265410

    Martin West
    Spectator

    Hi Sue,
    You would not need to increase the training cost (TNP 1) by £200 as the change is for EPA costs.

     
    #265444

    Sue Bishop
    Spectator

    Hi Martin

    The TNP1 is the total negotiated price (including EPA costs) isn’t it? Under TNP2 we are just highlighting the actual cost of the EPA aren’t we?

    Regards,

    Sue

     
    #265454

    Martin West
    Spectator

    Hi Sue,
    TNP 1 is the training costs only, you then add the EPA costs TNP 2 to get the total negotiated cost.
    HTH

     
    #265462

    Sue Bishop
    Spectator

    Think I need to go and do a spot of amending…..

     
    #265464

    Ruth CJ
    Spectator

    This may be a really dumb question, but the example used in the PSM seems odd. The second TNP2 price is higher than the original one. Is that because the newer price will override the old one (and it’s £1,000 extra), or is it just a weird example, and the two TNP2 records will be added together to make a total of £5,000? I am assuming the latter.

     
    #265734

    Martin West
    Spectator

    Hi Ruth,
    It goes on to say ‘The latest price records, based on the financial record date, are used in the funding calculation’ so it would not be the total of the TNP 2 records but only the latest one.
    HTH

     
    #265737

    Ruth CJ
    Spectator

    Ah, I missed that bit! Thank you. So not a completely dumb question. That seems counter-intuitive to begin with, but when you’re retrospectively reducing a price, that makes complete sense, as you can’t enter negative values.

     
    #265757

    Martin West
    Spectator

    Hi Ruth,
    One of the issues I have come across is the dates that are applicable to the TNP records are also important in that they reflect when the revised amounts take effect from (as a new price episode)
    Some providers have experience Dlock issues were the data is identical, but it is thought that this could be down to incorrect dates being entered for the TNP records.
    It is just another thing to watch out for.

     
    #265763

    RAC
    Spectator

    On the subject of EPA resit costs, can these be funded from the levy?

     
    #295546

    Martin West
    Spectator

    Hi,
    I assume you would add and increase the TNP 2 amount from the date the retake is required but where the total negotiated price is higher than the funding band maximum the difference would be paid be paid by the employer.
    HTH

     
    #295552

    RAC
    Spectator

    I would have doubts about changing the negotiated price in the ILR in view of the Funding Rules stating “Once the price has been negotiated, we do not expect the total price of the apprenticeship to increase.”

     
    #295760

    Martin West
    Spectator

    If that was the case, they would not include in the guidance all the various scenarios that can result in a training or ERA price change.

     
    #295767

    RAC
    Spectator

    Returning to the original question, is there any guidance from the ESFA that permits the use of levy to pay for re-taking end point assessment?

     
    #295775

    Martin West
    Spectator

    Hi RAC,
    I do not know why you doubt this is allowable but this scenario is indicated in the ILR Provider Support Manual

    An apprentice starts an apprenticeship standard programme on 1 August 2018. A training price of £13,000 is agreed prior to the start of the programme. An end point assessment price of £2,000 is later agreed on 1 February 2019. This is recorded as:
    AFinType AFinCode AFinDate AFinAmount
    TNP 1 01/08/2018 13000
    TNP 2 01/02/2019 2000

    The assessment price is later re-negotiated (for example to include additional costs or further assessment). A new end point assessment price of £3,000 is agreed to apply from 1 July 2019. The financial details for the programme are updated to reflect this:
    AFinType AFinCode AFinDate AFinAmount
    TNP 1 01/08/2018 13000
    TNP 2 01/02/2019 2000
    TNP 2 01/07/2019 3000

    HTH

     
    #295777

    RAC
    Spectator

    The mechanics of making changes to negotiated prices are accepted, for suitable reasons. However, is a need to re-take an end point assessment an acceptable reason for such a change.

    I have colleagues who are given to understand that the levy may fund only one end point assessment, and that any re-take would have to be financed separately by the employer, not through their levy. Hence the search for ESFA publications which say anything to the contrary.

     
    #295787

    Ruth CJ
    Spectator

    RAC – I can’t see anything anywhere that suggests you can’t use levy for re-takes. Where did your colleagues get that from? The quote from Martin above says “The assessment price is later re-negotiated (for example to include additional costs or further assessment)”. What is “further assessment” if not a re-take?

     
    #295803

    Martin West
    Spectator

    Hi RAC,
    The EPAO conditions specify what eligible costs can be funded by the employer’s apprenticeship service levy account or funded by the ESFA and this includes the following:

    vi. costs associated with any further assessment required by the apprentice to achieve end-point assessment (for instance retakes or resits)

    Can we now put this to bed?

     
    #295835

    RAC
    Spectator

    Yes we can. This is very helpful.

    Thank you very much Martin and Ruth for your time and assistance. Greatly appreciated.

     
    #295870

    megan1
    Spectator

    Hi, just been reading the thread which has been very useful. We currently have a similar scenario at the moment, and was wondering how the changes in the agreed price would be updated in the digital apprenticeship service account? Especially if the learners have been on programme for over a year.

    Thanks in advance!

     
    #317188
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