Gap in change of employer

[simonlSpectator]

The new rule says we can have an apprentice unemployed for up to 30 days when changing employer. If it goes over a claim we need to use a break in learning to ensure funds are not claimed when the learner is not employed.

We have a learner that left employment and started with the new employer 2 weeks after. This has not gone over a claim so we did not use a break. However we get an error saying

“There must be an apprenticeship contract type for the full duration of the aim”

Do we just ignore this error?

[Martin WestSpectator]

You need to use a BIL to cover the two week period

[simonlSpectator]

I read that you only use a break if it will affect funding which if they move in the same month it does not.
So basically we use a break for everyone who changes employer and does not start the new employer the following day?

[Martin WestSpectator]

The funding rules are open to interpretation, but the error confirms the problem, using a BIL for up to 30 days also maintains the original duration as for a 12 month programme the minimum duration would not be met when there was a gap in employment and a BIL was not used.
HTH

[Ruth CJSpectator]

In practical terms, we occasionally allow a few days (such as a long weekend), as long as it’s not over the month end. We start the new ACT on the start date with the new employer, and end the previous ACT the day before (which isn’t strictly true, but has no impact on funding). It’s up to you whether you choose to allow the odd few days, and how far you’re prepared to push that. As Martin says, the rules are clear that there should be no gap, but in practice I think many providers would allow a gap for a weekend, if not a few more days. If both employers are the same type, you don’t need a new ACT anyway.

[simonlSpectator]

Thanks Ruth, I think allowing a few days and updating the ACT as the day before is probably more practical for us as we have nearly 10k learners so the work involved in putting in breaks and restarts would be huge so a more common sense approach is probably best used.

[WilsonVikkiSpectator]

has any one considered last dates in learning on this?
the 30 days looks to be directing us to using employment dates to drive the break and return from break. there is no indication whether the last date of learning comes into it at all?

if a student is visited and then leaves employer 4 weeks later, restarts at a new employer and is visited 3 weeks after the move. there are gaps in recorded learning over the 30 days but the actual gap in employer is less than 30 days.

[Ruth CJSpectator]

I’d have thought your apprentice should have been doing some evidence-able learning between your last visit, and them leaving the employer, so you shouldn’t have an issue that end. The Actual End Date you use on the break should be the last day of learning, as usual.

So you just need to make sure they start properly with the new employer within 30 days of them leaving the previous one.

I do see your point about the employment gap being less than 30 days, but the learning gap being bigger. I don’t think the rules are clear on this. I think they’re assuming learning when they say “employment”, but that’s not actually what it says.

What if a student was already on a BIL, then changed employer with an employment gap of less than 30 days? The rules suggest that this is now allowable, as the new bit only refers to employment gap, not learning gap.

[Matt CollishawSpectator]

Hi All,

Am i right in thinking when using this new scenario for break in leaning as long as the learner finds a new job within 30 days, the following will apply:

the original required OTJ hours will remain the same as prior to the break in learning
the amount of OTJ they have previously done can be included towards the requirement

Thanks

[simonlSpectator]

Hi Matt

Yes that is my understanding. The OTJ will be the same unless when you bring them back on you have increased the LOS for whatever reason.

[Ruth CJSpectator]

I asked the ESFA about this and they confirmed;

I have received confirmation that the remaining off the job training would need to be entered in the ‘Planned Hours’ field for a restart apprenticeship.

So you’re supposed to enter the OTJ for just the remainder, not the same value again. They said they will try and make this clear in the PSM.

[simonlSpectator]

Thanks Ruth

I will double check but I am sure it comes up as an error if they are not on the minimum OTJ hours, this might just be our system though.

[Ruth CJSpectator]

Hi Simon,

It doesn’t error if you use the Restart Indicator, which you’re supposed to do even if it wasn’t an agreed BIL. That exception was partly what made me query this. Why would they put an exception for restarts if restarts were always supposed to have the full hours recorded again?

[simonlSpectator]

Thanks Ruth