Learner Destination and Progression entity 1819

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  steveh 10 months ago.

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  • Ruth CJ

    Anyone else spotted this change?

    ILR Spec 1718;
    28. Destination and progression data can either be reported in the year in which a learner
    completes their current programme of learning or in the following teaching year.

    ILR Spec 1819;
    28. Destination and progression data to be reported in the year in which a learner completes their current programme of learning.

    This wasn’t included in the summary of changes, or in the tables that show the changes (it was just highlighted in yellow), but I think it has a massive impact if this is correct. We know that the rules already changed so that we have to record a Destination within two months of completion, but we were expecting to enter a lot of Not Known values, as we can’t find out in time. We knew we would collect a meaningful destination the following year, so hadn’t worried too much. If we now can’t return a meaningful destination in the following year’s ILR, then a lot of our destinations could forever be Not Known.

    How do others go about collecting destinations within two months of completion? We’re ok with withdrawals and apprentices, as they tend to know what they’re up to. We can do a big bulk job in September/October for any returners. Our FE leavers that don’t return will quite often not yet be at uni or in work two months after they finish here. There is this bit in the 17/18 PSM;

    Outcomes that are due to occur in the future can be recorded, for example where a learner has a place on a course that is due to start in two months’ time. A future outcome should only be recorded if it has a definite start date within the following year: aspirational outcomes must not be recorded. You should be aware that future outcomes will not count as positive destinations unless they are later confirmed to have taken place.

    So students going to uni might be ok, assuming we can class conditional offers as a “definite start date”. How do we “confirm” that these outcomes have taken place? If the R14 is already closed, we won’t be able to do anything anyway.

    I just can’t see us being able to collect meaningful destination data on a large scale between July and the R14. The later we leave it, the better the quality will be, but I think we’re all rather busy in September and October. I know we’ve got a while to think about this, as we will still be able to record 17/18 leaver destinations in the 18/19 ILR.

    Any advice and strategies gratefully received!


    Jackie Talbot

    Hi Ruth,

    I can see that the majority of our learners will be “Not Known”. We cannot confirm destinations at that point in the year. I think this is very short-sighted of those who have made this change, and as with this year’s change to 2 months for all 16-18 year old destinations, it’s a change that has not been highlighted via the summary of changes document.

    I will follow this thread with interest.




    I had this pointed out to me In Another Place and have just emailed Mark Shield (Data Specification Manager), via the service desk, to get it from the horse’s mouth.

    I think it’s just a mistake.

    Also, aren’t Traineeship achievements still paid from D&P records?


    Martin West

    Most provider collect the actual destination/progression of the learner initially as at the end of learning using an exit form which is then used for any follow up record at a later date where required.
    Do not see this change if correct as an issue.


    Jackie Talbot

    At the end of the year none of my learners would have a confirmed destination unfortunately, as they are all hoping to go on to University once they receive their A Level results. In essence that means that my “Not known” destinations are correct at that point, as they are not claiming benefits, nor working, nor studying.

    I agree that for our AEB learners end of course surveys do gather this information.


    Andrew Tan

    Ruth, I have similar concerns to you regarding this.

    Martin, is that actually the case? I’d be surprised if ‘most providers’ manage to collect known actual destinations within the 2 months. I’m amazed you get that many learners to complete an exit form and interested about how you get them to do it!

    At present most of ours end up as unknown until a year end survey after we’ve accounted for anyone who may have returned to us on another course, or from UCAS data. We use a third party to survey the remaining learners on our behalf.


    Ruth CJ

    Andrew – Same process here, and I think many colleges do the same.

    We can hand out all the exit forms we like, but the likelihood of them being completed is slim. What motivation is there for students to complete these when they’re on their way out? Do it too long before they leave and it won’t be accurate. Apart from the students with uni places, very few of our students have a confirmed destination in June/July.

    Add to that the poor quality of data you’d get unless you actually verbally explain to them that it’s actual destination, and what types mean what. Our students rarely actually read any guidance provided. The nice thing about someone phoning them is that they can explain it properly.

    We used to collect some simple destination data for all FE leavers, which was done via progress tutors. It was constantly changing right up until they left, and rarely resembled what actually happened to them in the end.



    Can anyone advise when the rules changed from 6 months to 2 months and where I can find this?

    We actually don’t have too many issues with collecting this data via exit interviews when they leave and attempt to follow up 6 months after they leave to find out what they are currently doing and also record this in the ILR. Obviously if this can’t be record in the following academic year, we will stop contacting at 6 months – which selfishly would be ideal due to how much work it takes!!!


    Ruth CJ

    I see you had a reply on this Steve 🙂 Whilst they’ve removed the words from the ILR Spec, that’s probably just because it’s going to be in the PSM only. Good news as long as it’s in the PSM.



    Give me a chance Ruth!!!

    This is the Service Desk’s response when I asked:

    We can now advise as follows:
    How this field is used has not changed the guidance documentation was removed from the ILR specification and included in the ILR support manual for 17/18 and continued in this format for 18/19 to remove duplicate guidance.

    I refer to the 17/18 provider support manual paragraph 414. You can continue to record and update data about a learner’s destination and/or progression until the end of the teaching year following the ILR year in which their learning ended.

    Kind regards

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