Learner 'Stopped' on Digital Account

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Caspar Verney 2 months ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Author
    Posts

  • Sue Scott
    Participant

    Hi All

    Has anyone had a problem with the digital account in relation to Employers stopping Learners on a date prior to their actual end date on the ILR?
    We have had an instance where the Employer has stopped the learner too early which means we will get funding clawed back and also now not get our completion payment.
    I have spoken to the service desk about this and apparently the ‘STOP’ cannot be removed or changed, to a later date, by either the provider or Employer.
    Advised Solution:
    Put the learner back on the digital account for the months that have been missed but make the planned end date further in the future as you cannot put planned end dates in the past.
    This isn’t an option as I have already added the Level 3 Programme starting in the same month that the L2 finished!!
    I was then told I would have to remove the Level 3 to enable the remaining months to be added to the Level 2.
    This is not an option either as the Employer has a contract of work in place for the apprentice and we should not expect them to change this as well as all the associated paperwork (Commitment Statement etc)
    Has anyone got a feasible solution?

    Kind Regards
    Sue

     
    #344549

    Mark
    Participant

    We have had several where the employer has stopped a learner with an earlier date than in our ILR. Achievement payments were not affected, believe it or not.
    They do appear on the DLOCK report and cannot be removed. Advise was to ignore them!

     
    #344551

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Sue,
    The employer will need contact the Apprenticeship Service as they can remove the Stop entered by the employer in error when the learner was progressing.
    HTH

     
    #344578

    Taylor26
    Participant

    Hi Martin,

    Is this a new feature? I’ve had several stops by employers (complete nightmare) but have always been told by both Service Desk and AS that the stop can’t be removed.

    Many thanks.

     
    #344728

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Taylor,
    Sorry I simplified my answer when I said, ‘they can remove the stop’.

    The AS and Service Desk are correct in that neither the Employer or Provider can remove a Stop and the normal advice is that the employer should create a new record for the learner.

    Now that Apprentices are now completing and or progressing to further Apprenticeships this is causing new issues where an Employer has stopped a learner (in error) and even though they could create a new record the correct start dates may not be able to be entered on the new record. The advice from the AS is where this happens the Employer (not Provider) will need to ask the AS to correct the dates.

    The problem that arises is that the Employer needs to explain to the AS what the actual issue with the learner record is, but I have found that Employers are not always able to explain this, and this results in the AS giving incorrect advice for the situation due to this and the issue is never resolved.

    The recent webinar on Stop and Pause issues highlights the problems that this is causing but even this did not identify the evolving issues where Apprentices are completing or progressing.

    As you say it is a complete nightmare when the Employer puts a stop on an account in error and the only solution is that the help desk and or AS find some way of reversing the Stop as this issue will not go away (I know of some Providers who have never been funded for a learner due to poor communication of issues between the employer and the Apprenticeship Service).
    HTH

     
    #344740

    Taylor26
    Participant

    Thank Martin, its nice to know we are all in the same boat. It really has been nightmare into a black hole. My poor ILR for some of these learners is just very messy to try claim the funding back, if these learners were picked for audit goodness know what the auditor would say!

    I can’t fathom why the stop can’t be ‘removed’ – the stop does give the employer too much power (I think) and the Pause is a much better feature.

     
    #344750

    Sue Scott
    Participant

    Hi
    Both myself and the Employer are working very closely on this and I did speak to the AS but they are adament they cannot remove the stopped status.
    I also went into depth about the massive problems that this is causing and will cause if I follow their instructions on how to deal with it. They also referred me to ESFA for help with the ILR changes (really)!!!
    I cannot just change dates on my ILR when they are perfectly correct and all documentation relates to theses dates.

    Where do I go from here?

     
    #344760

    Taylor26
    Participant

    I was instructed the Service Desk to close my learners ILR as a ‘transfer’ and then record a learner as a “restart” I then asked do I have to obtain all new paperwork in relation to the new “start date” and new “exp end date” and they Service Desk (in writing I might add) and said new paperwork would not be required to fix this error.

    Its not ideal and I hate having to do it, it causing problems with Finance who think its a new start chase me for p/work, and goodness knows what it does to success rates etc.

     
    #344762

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    How are we all being given different advice? What Sue has been advised is nonsensical.

    I was told that, where a record is incorrectly stopped, to get the employer to change the end date to match the start date, which effectively nullifies it. Then get them to set up a brand new one, almost identical to the the original, but with a start date one day later to prevent overlap.

    Mark – You say the achievement payments were not affected, that’s good! We’re yet to test that situation. What if they stopped it earlier than the end date in the ILR? Do you know if we get payments for the remaining months? I’m guessing not.

     
    #344941

    Mark
    Participant

    We have had several where the employer stopped the learner on the planned end date. The actual end date in the ILR was the following month, they are in DLOCK, but strangely we were paid correctly.

    Would be a whole lot simpler if the employer had to seek our approval to stop a record. At the moment I have an ever growing list of DLOCKS that get ignored. Either we know the employer did not approve the start in time or that are pure rubbish – stop date does not match exit date, amounts don’t match when they do or paused and they are in the ILR too.

     
    #344943

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    I’ll wait and see what happens if an employer stops the record before the planned and actual end dates (for an early completer). I’m not sure if it would stop the balancing payments.

     
    #344947

    matthew.rogers
    Participant

    I have been assisting the ESFA in their research on the new ASA and emailed them (again) yesterday to complain about this feature. An employer stopped 3 apprentices on the system yesterday (all of which have completed). The employer said “I didn’t know what I was doing” is a common one!

    Let’s hope they listen to training providers and add a two-way approval system for ‘stopped’ apprentices like they do for the cohort request/approval.

     
    #345144

    Caspar Verney
    Participant

    Thank you for that post Matthew. I do so, so hope that the ESFA will listen, but must confess to being very jaded on that score.

    Caspar

     
    #345257
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