Learners changing employers

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  steveh 1 week, 3 days ago.

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  • simonl
    Participant

    Hi I would like to hear how people are dealing with learners that have walked out or been sacked. Would this person be an automatic early leaver?
    An example I have is someone leaves a job and has no job to go to, however they are actively looking and are confident they will have a job in a month or two’s time.
    Obviously we don’t want to take them off if they have completed work and would like to work with them with the hope they find a new employer in a month or two’s time. During the time they are out of work we would not be receiving any employer contributions so should we put them on a break in learning then reinstate when they start work with their new employer? Or do we just have to take them off? The problem then is if they start again and want to pick up their training we would have to start them again and reduce funding and not be able to justify a full 12 months course.
    Thanks in advance

     
    #355870

    steveh
    Participant

    This is causing a *lot* of questions at the moment.

    Hard Hard line is “learner is unemployed therefore they cannot be an apprentice, withdraw them”.

    However I’ve recently seen discussions involving ESFA where both BILs and Transfers have been mentioned as possible ways to deal with this situation, but nothing officially recommended apart from withdrawal…

     
    #355884

    simonl
    Participant

    Thanks Steve

    I think the break seems the most obvious solution especially if you have a good learner and want to continue to work with them. I can’t see anywhere that a break can’t be used in this circumstance either.
    I was advised to just take them off as a leaver but we work in the hospitality industry so have a lot of people leaving and picking up a new employer soon after.

     
    #355892

    steveh
    Participant

    They’ve always been *very* cagey about the definition of Break in Learning, although I’ve been informed that we might get a few more examples in the 19/20 rules (or, at least, the 19/20 PSM)…

    The thing is though, if we’re wrong and you can’t use a BIL for this, you’ll be inflating your Achievement rates, so you might want to seek further guidance from ESFA (and then Report Back what they say please ;))

     
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by  steveh.
    #355897

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    The current funding rules require that a learner must be withdrawn where they have become unemployed, but they can be a restart if they obtain employment where they can continue their Apprenticeship.
    HTH

     
    #355903

    simonl
    Participant

    Thank you both for the advise, just to be safe I have emailed the service desk too although last time I tried this they came back with about 4 different answers so fingers crossed!

     
    #355922

    simonl
    Participant

    Just an update I have found it now in the Provider Support Manual 1819 Version 2 page 59 Paragraph 5.4.3 so it’s withdraw then re-start.

    Thanks again

     
    #355929

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    We’re now being pretty tough on this. If they get another job within a week, and that week doesn’t straddle months, or have any additional payments due, we may just leave them as a continuing. Otherwise, we withdraw. We don’t use a BIL unless it’s agreed by both apprentice and employer.

     
    #356158

    simonl
    Participant

    Just had this back from the service desk

    The apprentice must have a contract of service with an employer, or an apprenticeship training agency. The apprentice would be classed as a withdrawal. Once the apprentice has found a new employer you Should follow the guidance 5.4.3 Recording restarts (without an agreed break in learning) in the provider support manual page 59 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/778488/ProviderSupportManual_18_19_v2.pdf

     
    #356166

    steveh
    Participant

    Pretty clear 🙂 Thanks simonl

     
    #356178

    LC
    Participant

    Hi – does anyone know how this affects success rates? Withdrawing a learner, and then when they find new Employment restarting them (without an agreed BIL)?

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Many thanks L

     
    #356213

    steveh
    Participant

    they’ll count against you, simple as that.

     
    #356219
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