Maths and English exemptions

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Home Forums Data issues Maths and English exemptions

This topic contains 20 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  NinaManEx 4 months ago.

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
  • Author
    Posts

  • CheDag
    Participant

    Judgement of an apprentice’s current level
    Funding Rules for training providers states;

    P136: If an apprentice does not have acceptable evidence of previous attainment of
    English and/or maths you should carry out a judgement of their current level. You
    must use current assessment tools based on the national literacy and numeracy
    standards and core curriculum to do this.

    Does this mean that if an apprentice cannot find/supply their GCSE certs or equivalent, the ESFA will accept a BKSB or initial assessment result as evidence of their current level AND as exemption for their maths and English qualification?

     
    #380752

    Martin West
    Participant

    Not as an exemption, the assessed level is used to determine the level to undertake where they do not hold acceptable evidence.

     
    #380755

    steveh
    Participant

    They need to have evidence of a qual, the initial assessment is not sufficient.

    If they’re coming out of BKSB as working at/above L2, then just put them in for the test and don’t claim the funding (because you won’t have to teach them anything).

     
    #380875

    EricaP
    Participant

    With regards to exemptions is there a source of acceptable transferable skills for standards eg with frameworks there was an ACE actual list of exemption equivalent qualifications so we are still using this for standards but is this correct

     
    #380934

    Martin West
    Participant
    #380936

    EricaP
    Participant

    That’s great thanks as always Martin.

    Also as an off shoot, if someone really cannot locate their certificates the LRS (PLR) printout isn’t enough evidence is it?

     
    #380940

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Erica,
    The PLR can be used as acceptable evidence, but it has to include the correct details and grade, see the following link.
    https://acecerts.co.uk/web/organisations/personal-learner-record-lrs#jp-carousel-7255

    HTH

     
    #380954

    EricaP
    Participant

    Many thanks Martin

    I am covering a role at the moment so missing some vital knowledge.. Very helpful

     
    #380992

    Sharon Jones
    Participant

    So can I just clarify, if the learner can not find the evidence that they have the GCSEs and comes out below level 2 the ESFA will fund them to do the level 2 FS?

     
    #412918

    steveh
    Participant

    Provided you’re actually teaching them something and can evidence this, then yes!

     
    #412920

    Sharon Jones
    Participant

    Thank you

     
    #412922

    Ceribland
    Participant

    Just received some guidance on this today from ESFA, their answers follow my bullet point questions:

    • Can we use the BKSB diagnostic result to evidence our judgement of their current level and therefore meet the requirement (if at Level 2)?

    Yes, the diagnostic result can be used to evidence the apprentices current level and if they meet the requirement they will no longer need to undertake functional skills.

    • If not, can we claim funding for candidates who take Functional Skills tests but do not have tuition beforehand? Candidates are all provided with access to online support portals but face to face training tends not to take place.

    We will fund an apprentice to achieve up to an approved level 2 qualification in English and maths where they do not already hold a suitable equivalent qualification. This includes funding for the test regardless of whether tuition is required beforehand.

     
    #448799

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    I do not think you understand the questions you have asked the ESFA or understand their answers.

     
    #448808

    steveh
    Participant

    Well that’s, um, different…

    The evidence pack rules includes this bit:

    P310 Where applicable, the evidence pack must include the following:
    P310.1 Details of how English and maths will be delivered, including a plan of delivery and evidence of delivery taking place against that plan.

    So, if there’s no delivery, there’s no evidence of delivery… They never* pay us for not delivering a thing…

    *there was a brief period in the early 00’s when we did get paid for just putting ppl through english and maths to hit a target, but it only lasted for 18 months

     
    #448810

    NinaManEx
    Participant

    At the minute we do not claim ANY funding for learners who claim to have qualifications at level 1 or 2 that they cannot provide evidence for (e.g. certificates or PLR)

    If a learner says they have previously obtained level 1/2 qualifications or equivalent and cannot provide evidence we put them in for the exam level they are working at based on initial assessment (often this is level 1 or below) – And claim no funding.

    1) Are you saying that if they do not provide evidence we can claim funding for what we deliver.
    e.g. if we deliver level 1 teaching we can claim funding for level 1 (even though they ‘claimed’ to have level 2 but couldn’t evidence it and are showing as below level 1 on Initial Assessment) ?

    2) All learners are always given a combination of level 1 and level 2 delivery, so that they can be offered the level 2 progression after passing level 1 (if required). – Providing we offer them a level 2 progression should we claim level 2 funding from the start? And if so is this instead of level 1, or, as well as level 1 funding? – Because if we claim level 2 funding but put them in for their level 1 exam first we cannot record the level 1 pass?

    We only claim level 2 funding when the learner agrees to go on to take their level 2 progression/exams. Or if they start at level 2.

    At the moment we incur all charges for anyone who has declared they have a qualification for which they do not have evidence. So we are also footing the bill for learners who said they have achieved level 2 before but have no evidence and their IA says they are at level 2. Even though we often need to recap a lot of their Functional skills for them to pass their exams at level 2 – we just don’t claim the funding based on their declaration.

     
    #455367

    Kelly
    Participant

    When you say you don’t claim funding if they just need the exam, does this mean you don’t enrol them on the FS aim or you mark it as full-cost? I thought if they weren’t exempt we didn’t have a choice in the matter. this is interesting.

     
    #455650

    Martin West
    Participant

    You cannot claim funding for an examination only there must be a period of training to claim funding.

     
    #455652

    steveh
    Participant

    Oh sorry, just realised I didn’t report back on this!

    Your request (38853) has been updated. To add additional comments, reply to this email.

    Angela (Apprenticeship Service Support)

    Dear Steve,

    You previously raised an incident with our Specialist team.

    The Specialist team have been in touch to let us know the following:

    It has been clarified that in order to claim funding for English and Maths functional skills, there needs to have been some teaching delivered. This will need to be evidence in the evidence pack as per P310.1 which I have referenced below from the 2019/2020 main provider funding rules:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/857045/1920_Provider_Rules_Version_2.0_FINAL.pdf

    P310.1 Details of how English and maths will be delivered, including a plan of delivery and evidence of delivery taking place against that plan.

    I hope this information has been useful.

    I also asked for this to be made explicit in the Rules, and they’re thinking about it.

     
    #455654

    steveh
    Participant

    Kelly, I think you can do either if you’re not teaching them, whichever fits your systems better.

    If you haven’t got evidence that they need teaching (ie if they ace the diagnostic), then you can’t have money for teaching them anyway…

     
    #455657

    NinaManEx
    Participant

    That’s correct Kelly we do not claim any funding for the teaching or the exam.

    So we do not put the AIM on – we mark them as exempt.
    (They should provide their certification – but in the absence of this we put them in for their exam and deliver training to ensure they are able to pass – as the exams are at our cost, and often even those who say they have a level 2 come out at level 1 or below on their diagnostics)

     
    #456016

    NinaManEx
    Participant

    Steven this suggests to me that we can claim funding, regardless of their declaration, if we go on to deliver the training. And providing the training is justified – i.e. their diagnostics/I.A show a need for training.

    Is that how you interpret it?

     
    #456022
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