Maths and English for standards

Feconnect has been replaced by ESFA communities.

Feconnect is read only and it is not possible to create or reply to topics or posts. To search feconnect we suggest you use site specific searches. ESFA Communities is now live. Feconnect users will need to create a new ESFA communities account to post, reply or subscribe for email alerts.



Home Forums Data issues Maths and English for standards

This topic contains 9 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Cris Hale 3 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
  • Author
    Posts

  • Cris Hale
    Spectator

    Hi all,

    With regards to the Customer Service Practitioner standard, which says:

    Apprentices will be required to have or achieve level 1 English and Maths and to have taken level 2 English and Maths tests prior to completion of their Apprenticeship.

    How would the funding work for this? For example, if they haven’t achieved level 1 but are assessed at that level, would you put them straight on level 2 and would that meet the requirement after they’d passed? I’m wondering why it doesn’t say “at least level 1″ – would they need to sit both levels?

    Thanks,

    Cris

     
    #158033

    Martin West
    Spectator

    Hi Cris,
    This standard requires that ‘Apprentices will be required to have or achieve level 1 English and Maths and to have taken level 2 English and Maths tests prior to completion of their Apprenticeship’
    The funding rules:
    P101. You can claim funding for apprentices who have not previously attained a GCSE grade A* to C (or 4 to 9) in English or maths on the day they start the following qualifications.
    101.1. GCSE English language or maths.
    101.2. Functional skills English or maths at level 2.
    P102. We will fund functional skills English or maths at level 1 or below if you have conducted a thorough initial assessment using current assessment tools based on the national literacy and numeracy standards and core curriculum that shows the apprentice needs to study a lower level before being able to achieve their level 2.
    So would put on L2 unless P102 applies.
    HTH

     
    #158094

    Cris Hale
    Spectator

    Hi Martin,

    But from a more practical point of view (i.e. recording aims), how would it work? Should they be enrolled on level 2 unless you have reason not to? By the sounds of it they will only be able to do level 1 at all if they’re assessed at entry level.
    So in the situation that a learner is assessed at level 1 but haven’t previously achieved it, would you enrol on level 2?

    Regards,

    Cris

     
    #158107

    Martin West
    Spectator

    Hi Cris,
    As the general rule is to study at a level to that as assessed at you would enrol on L2 but where assessed below L1 they would undertake L1 and then L2 and you would be funded for both.
    HTH

     
    #158113

    GaynorLF
    Spectator

    Hi Cris

    We will be delivering English and Maths on the same basis that Martin has quoted. If they need Level 1 as per their initial/diagnostic assessment then we would enrol on level 1 and progress to Level 2 accordingly.

    However, we strongly disagree with the idea of ‘setting them up to fail’. We find that many learners struggle to pass at Level 1 and may fail a Level 2 test and, as it is not a requirement of the Apprenticeship Standard we are delivering, we cannot see the reason behind it. It would be fantastic if we could get all learners to a pass at Level 2 but in the real world this is not possible. If 5 years of schooling can’t achieve it then what makes the ‘powers that be’ think they will be able to achieve it within an Apprenticeship over 2 years with limited learning hours? Rant over

     
    #158132

    Martin West
    Spectator

    Hi,
    The reason behind it is that they must undertake level 2 English and Maths tests prior to completion if they do not already have a L2, that’s the rule.
    HTH

     
    #158134

    GaynorLF
    Spectator

    I know it’s a rule. And it will be done.

    But from a learner and tutor point of view, and quite possibly Ofsted, we will still be ‘setting them up to fail’. That it is a rule will be adhered to does not detract from that.

     
    #158151

    r012943
    Spectator

    Hello,

    Based on the below paras from the funding rules, would the learner not have to take L1 before L2 regardless of their IA result if they do not already hold L1 or equivalent?

    P105. For level 2 apprenticeships where level 2 English or maths are not required for the apprenticeship and the apprentice does not already hold acceptable qualifications (see published list) apprentices must:
    105.1. achieve a functional skills qualification of at least level 1 English and maths before taking the end-point assessment or achieving an apprenticeship framework
    105.2. start, continue to study and take the test for level 2 English and maths before they complete their apprenticeship: they do not have to achieve English and maths to complete their apprenticeship

    Therefore, are providers allowed to skip the L1 and enrol straight into L2 if deemed appropriate following IA? Or is the L1 achievement mandatory?

    Thanks.

     
    #158248

    GaynorLF
    Spectator

    Hi

    We enrol straight to Level 2 if appropriate according to initial/diagnostic assessment and prior learning record/achievement.

    We enrol to Level 1 and work on to Level 2 if the intial/diagnostic assessment and prior learning record/achievement show the the Apprentice needs to study at a lower level before being able to achieve their level 2.

    It would be a wonderful world if all Apprentices were immediately ready to study at level 2, but in reality this is not the case.

    Hope this helps

     
    #158715

    Cris Hale
    Spectator

    Hi r012943,

    I’ve interpreted that part to mean that, assuming they have no prior attainment, if they’re assessed at entry level you would enrol on level 1; if they’re assessed at level 1 you would put them on the level 2. If they then failed the level 2 exam(s) you would need to put them through the level 1 exam (without adjusting the course or funding) before EPA.

    Cris

     
    #162150
Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.