Moved employer to Levy Payer but on old framework

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This topic contains 10 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  ScottP 1 month, 4 weeks ago.

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
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  • simonl
    Participant

    So here is a new one,

    A learner who started on a FW that has now been closed out has moved employer and is now with a Levy Paying employer. The new employer has added him to their DAS account but it is not allowing them to select the FW as it no longer exists. The ESFA have said computer says no so the learner would have to go down as non levy and employer would need to pay the co investment.
    Surely this can’t be right, anyone else had this issue?

     
    #363666

    Spats
    Participant

    Doesn’t sound right to me – the new employer is losing the ability to make use of their levy and effectively paying again for something that they’ve already contributed money to the govt pot for.

    I’d have been suggesting that the learner would have to be closed as a withdrawal on the framework and started over on a standard as at the start date with the new employer, but I really don’t know if that’s right or not, so it’ll be interesting to see other replies.

     
    #363674

    simonl
    Participant

    I don’t think they thought about this situation before switching the FWs off on the DAS system.

     
    #363676

    OFFS
    Participant

    As Spats says this doesn’t sound right, maybe someone at ESFA is confused…

     
    #363694

    Spats
    Participant

    Did you ever get a sensible response from the ESFA about this, simon?

     
    #366559

    simonl
    Participant

    I didnt no, in the end we just had to put them on as non levy funded and the employer was happy to contribute as it was only the 20% completion element remaining.

     
    #366728

    jessicar
    Participant

    I think you may have got mixed up with FM35 Frameworks and FM36 Frameworks. It depends what you mean by this:
    A learner who started on a FW that has now been closed out has moved employer

    What was the start date of their original apprenticeship before they moved employer? Was there a gap in learning between new and old employer or did the apprentice move immediately between the two?

    The apprenticeship the apprentice is on has obviously had its ‘last date for new starts’ pass, which is preventing them from being added to DAS which is making me think that they started their apprenticeship before 01 May 2017.

    If this is the case then they are a FM35 apprentice and so have nothing to do with the Levy or DAS. If a new Levy payer has recently taken them on, regardless of what this date is, their start date on the apprenticeship would mean they are still FM35 (aka old funding rules), so the employer would have to contribute depending on the age of the apprentice. If they are over 19, ESFA would be contributing around 50% and your fee would 50% or less.

    The only way to get around this would be to withdraw them from the previous apprenticeship, and find them a more update framework/standard. You d then have to assess their prior learning and reduce the price accordingly and then the employer could add them to DAS.

    Option 1 would be to waive the new employers expected contribution and just accept the 50%ish funding from the ESFA, or withdrawn them and restart them on something new.

     
    #366748

    ScottP
    Participant

    Exactly the same issue, Levy learner transferred. This is the response from the helpdesk:

    The Technical Support team have been in touch today to let us know that once a framework has expired, you will need to select a framework/standard that is currently live that is the most similar to the existing course the student is studying as there are no other options to add them on an expired framework.

    Utter joke!!

     
    #366768

    Spats
    Participant

    It’s not great, but it makes far more sense than what simon was told to do.

    Worrying that, yet again, we’ve got two completely different, contradictory responses from the helpdesk.

     
    #366778

    jessicar
    Participant

    Its not a joke, you are probably getting mixed up between FM35 and FM36 apprentices. Only FM36 apprentices go on DAS, and if you are trying to add someone on DAS where the framework has expired, you ve either signed them up incorrectly or you aren’t following the guidance correctly.

     
    #366791

    ScottP
    Participant

    Not an FM35 FM36 issue. Learners were signed up in December 17, framework expired in Jan 18. Learners were in the TAS account, but due to the change in provider have had to be stopped and re-entered under the new training provider (or at least that’s the aim).
    Basically the TAS team have put in logic to prevent new starts being on expired frameworks, but have totally overlooked the need for transfers.
    I’ve emailed the EFSA helpdesk to ask if they are happy for us to submit these learners under an alternative code, as suggested by the TAS team. I’m guessing what their response will be!!

     
    #366793
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