Morning everyone Happy Friday! Does anyone know when these payments will be made? In line with current incentives perhaps i,e month 3 and 12?July 10, 2020 at 10:09 am #451825
There are no details of this at the moment as far as I’m aware and it is also not known how the actual payment will take place (provider etc.).
More details to be released.
MarkJuly 10, 2020 at 10:45 am #451833
do you think it should appear in an update to the apprenticeship technical funding guide?
ChrisJuly 10, 2020 at 10:58 am #451835
Apps twitter account promised an update next week (as did Peter Mucklow on Nick Linford’s webinar yesterday):
Working assumption is the easiest thing to do is pay them at 90 and 365 days, but you know what “assume” did…
Also, cannot think that any of this will apply to starts before 1 August, *waaaaaaaaaay* too messy to add in at this point…July 10, 2020 at 11:28 am #451849
Hi Steve, I think at the moment it’s only for starts Aug 20 – Jan 21. Not very helpful in the case we have already had two employers who now want to delay their starts from July to AugJuly 10, 2020 at 12:02 pm #451872
Yeah, bound to be a bit of that (remember when employer contribution changed from 10% to 5%, to give a recent example)…July 10, 2020 at 12:06 pm #451878
Hi, This confirms the payment schedule for new incentives / bonuses and also that the Apprentice has to be NEW employee and cannot be an incumbent member of staff.July 14, 2020 at 4:51 pm #452708
Following todays release (above link), I still find myself with more questions than answers.
The link talks about claiming the incentive through the apprenticeship service – what about those smaller employers who are not on the Apprenticeship Service yet?
And, when it talks about the payment being made directly to employers in two equal instalments, will they be paying the money into the employers DAS account or into their bank accounts?
Would be interested in the thoughts of others on this, if indeed anyone has the answers at the moment.July 14, 2020 at 6:25 pm #452732
Being as all new apprenticeships ideally need to be done through the Apprenticeship Service, using reserved funds, then any non levy employers taking on a new Apprentice would simply register on the service and reserve the necessary funds. That way any bonus / incentive can be paid via the AS.July 15, 2020 at 8:36 am #452793
But, yes, looks like the bonus payments will be a carrot to get non-levy employers to sign up to AS. Reading between the lines, Apps on contracted non-levy won’t be eligible (but you could use that funding, if you have it, for existing staff).
The question about ESFA paying the bonuses directly is a good one, there will have to be new systems to deal with it (also, does it mean employers will be subject to audit???).July 15, 2020 at 10:35 am #452812
Unless there is clarity, there is the potential for non levy employers to take on apprentices (and to so via the providers contracted non-levy) and potentially miss out on the incentive. Also, if it is paid VIA the AS, will that mean that the money is effectively ring fenced and can only be spent on apprenticeship training… in which case its not really an incentive. Also, the fact that the requirement for small employers to go onto DAS has been further pushed back it gives the impression (to employers) that they don’t need to do it just yet… but in fact they may HAVE to do it now IF they want to benefit from the incentive. We deal with a lot of small employers and feel that there are more questions than answers at the momentJuly 15, 2020 at 10:50 am #452819
Yes Steve, I use the word “simply” in the loosest possible term! 🙂
The end goal is to have ALL apprenticeships on the AS and it may have been pushed back yes, but as with the end of frameworks, it will happen eventually. We are advising all our small non levy employers that being as the guidance specifically says “we are moving away from the use of Government-procured contracts for apprenticeship training” there will very soon be no choice. May as well start as you mean to go on. Now they have increased the number of starts from 3 to 10 should help.July 15, 2020 at 11:43 am #452830
I think it’s clear that non-levy contracted *won’t* get the bonus, so get them on AS.
I’m 90% sure that they will be paid cash, rather than it going back into their App pot, ESFA just haven’t explained the mechanics for this yet.
And, yes, I think it’s up to providers to guide employers through this, they’re unlikely to know the ins and outs of how funding works anyway!July 15, 2020 at 12:16 pm #452839
Hi – If a learner starts a new employer on the 1ST of August will they be able to claim the new incentive?
Thank youJuly 15, 2020 at 1:01 pm #452849
Awaiting further detailed confirmation, but that’s the gist of yesterday’s document…July 15, 2020 at 1:09 pm #452854
This learner has been on programme since March but was made redundant due to COVID19, therefore they are not a “new learner” and will continue their apprenticeship with their new employer?
DonnaJuly 15, 2020 at 1:13 pm #452856
Hahaha, there’s always one! 😉
On the basis that they’re not starting their (whole) apprenticeship after 1 August, I’d tend towards “no”, but couldn’t be sure…July 15, 2020 at 1:35 pm #452858
I’d agree Steve – it must be a new Apprenticeship as well as a new employee according to the guidanceJuly 15, 2020 at 1:56 pm #452864
Does the “new employee / new apprenticeship” mean that a school leaver who has previously done some part-time work for an employer would be excluded from the additional incentives when they take up full time employment and an apprenticeship programme?
It sounds like it will, but seems harsh to me.
MartinJuly 15, 2020 at 2:21 pm #452870
The funding guide specifies…
“The apprentice must be a new employee to the business, have a contract of
employment start date between 1 August 2020 and 31 January 2021 (inclusive)
and must not have been employed by the employer within the six months prior to
the contract start date.”
I suppose it will depend whether their part-time work was within the last 6 months of any intended apprenticeship start date??July 15, 2020 at 2:24 pm #452872
My questions I want answered from the guidance once it’s out;
– How new is “new”? Does their first day of employment have to be their apprenticeship start date? Will there be some leeway? Starts gets delayed for all sorts of reasons.
– How do we evidence “new”? I assume just an employer declaration, same as for small employers.
– Does an employer have to have been through the reservation/commitment process to apply for this? If so, that’s brought our plans for that rushing forward, we though we had until April.
– Who applies, us or the employer? Will this be one of the things they give us permission to do?July 15, 2020 at 2:39 pm #452876
Yes, the question is about the part time employment being within 6 months of the apprenticeship start date, and it doesn’t fit with paragraph 8 of the policy document that you have quoted.
I was wondering if anyone was aware of any leeway, more specific guidance that would avoid such hard working school leavers being passed over because the employer can get an extra 2k for taking on somebody else instead.
MartinJuly 15, 2020 at 2:46 pm #452878
I totally agree Martin, there needs to be some flexibility regarding part time work within 6 months prior to start date. We have hairdressing employers ready to progress their Saturday people onto apprenticeships but looks like they won’t be able to claim the new incentives according to the rules.
Surely a clause of some sort will be added to the guidance to prevent these potential apprentices who are just finding their feet and gaining confidence being let go and replaced by someone else.July 21, 2020 at 10:18 am #453872
Not to be too cynical (moi?), but can’t see it happening. There are bound to be edge cases like this, but can’t see them being eligible, they need to be proper new starters to get the bonus.July 21, 2020 at 12:37 pm #453890
Not that I’m encouraging fraud, but if an employer took it upon themselves to self declare that the apprentice is brand new, who would know otherwise? Auditors don’t go and check employer payroll info, or cross check HMRC data, as far as I know.July 21, 2020 at 4:27 pm #453956
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