Q&A on Submit Learner Data and FIS

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This topic contains 158 replies, has 34 voices, and was last updated by  ESFA Data Collections Team 1 month, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 159 total)
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  • Charlotte
    Participant

    Hi,

    Where will we be able to download the Funding Rules Monitoring reports once The Hub is no longer active?

    Thanks

     
    #390890
    SFA STAFF

    Martin asked the question:

    Q2. Will FIS output an mdb file in the same format as 2018/19

    The ESFA responded:

    2. We know the mdb file is important and while it won’t be available tomorrow, we are working on it and it will be part of a future release when it’s ready.

    Does the ESFA have an estimated timeline for this “future release” ie next week, next month, next year?

    The FIS .mdb file is vital for us to pay our subcontractors

    Thanks

    Reply from the EFSA

    Thanks Terry.

    I’m afraid we don’t have a definitive date yet, but we’re hoping it’ll be available by the end of 2019. We’re not in a place yet to commit though.

    The .mdb file got deprioritised for R01 because the data on it is available elsewhere. You should be able to find what you need on the SQL database or through the funding reports (in FIS or in Submit Learner Data).

     
    #390894
    SFA STAFF

    Will the funding reports for apprenticeships from FIS match the funding reports from SLD this year? And I echo the other comments regarding the MDB file as this is essential for us to create funding reports as well as for ProAchieve.

    Reply from the ESFA
    Hi Fiona,

    Let’s start with your first question, as it can get a bit complex.

    The funding reports for apprenticeships in Submit Learner Data will be split between submission and period end – as they are now.

    As was the case in 2018/2019, neither will exactly match your FIS reports. While we’d love FIS to be able to be 100% accurate, it’ll never be the case as it’s an offline tool – so it can’t access up-to-date reference data.

    In a bit more detail…

    The period end reports look at employer accounts on the Apprenticeship Service to identify co-investment and work out your payments – the data it needs to be accurate changes daily.

    The submission reports work out your earnings from the ILR, including any previous earnings for the apprenticeship at a previous employer or provider (based on the ULN). This data is held in Submit Learner Data, but it can’t be published through FIS.

    Additionally this year, some funding line types are determined after the initial submission, so FIS funding line types will not match up to the funding line types you’ll be paid against.

    All of these issues result from FIS being disconnected from the rest of the funding system. So to get the most accurate indication of your apprenticeship funding we recommend you use SLD.

    Onto your next question re .mdb:

    We deprioritised the .mdb file as this data is accessible elsewhere – through the SQL database or on the funding reports in FIS or Submit Learner Data.

    We are working on making it available though. A very rough and ready estimate for availability is Christmas time, but that is just a guestimate at this time.

     
    #390900

    TerryFord
    Participant

    The ESFA said:

    “We deprioritised the .mdb file as this data is accessible elsewhere – through the SQL database or on the funding reports in FIS or Submit Learner Data.”

    Could you tell me how to gain access to the the SQL Database especially tables available in FIS including:
    LEARNER
    LEARNINGDELIVERY
    RULEBASE …. etc ?

    Thanks
    Terry

     
    #390918
    SFA STAFF

    The ESFA said:

    “We deprioritised the .mdb file as this data is accessible elsewhere – through the SQL database or on the funding reports in FIS or Submit Learner Data.”

    Could you tell me how to gain access to the the SQL Database especially tables available in FIS including:
    LEARNER
    LEARNINGDELIVERY
    RULEBASE …. etc ?

    Thanks
    Terry

    Reply from the ESFA

    Sure thing.

    You’ll need SQL server management studio. You’ll probably already have this if you have 18/19 FIS, but if not it’s free to download.

    Connect it to your database with the appropriate connection string. The connection string will be unique to you but looks something like this: “Data Source=(local);Initial Catalog=ILR1920;Integrated Security=True”

    The tables should then be available in there.

     
    #390928

    Martin West
    Participant

    To those who need an mdb before Christmas

    A few year ago, I used Access to return from SQL Server all the FIS databases using a pass through query.

    You can access a zip file (link below) that contains guidance for the original 2014 version and two Access applications that I have used with the 2019/20 FIS Beta to copy or link to the FIS databases I required although I have modified the 2019/20 applications to work with FIS Beta but you may need to change if the release version is different.

    https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgpU5HnvFLX2gRq-AW7FgL_qiJ4L?e=Z6BkVK

    Hope that helps

     
    #390934

    TerryFord
    Participant

    Martin

    I will give it a try if I can get access to onedrive. The SQL server management studio mentioned above is 500 mb in size and has been trying to install for over 15 minutes.

    Thanks
    Terry

     
    #390940

    Caspar Verney
    Participant

    The communication through this thread is very helpful, but why is it so late? There have been many threads on FeConnect over the past weeks and months expressing fears and concerns over the systems and rules for 1920 and yet silence from the Agency which has been extremely unhelpful.

    It is evident from the responses here that some vital components have been “deprioritised” which may compromise efficiency and accuracy – Providers must not be blamed or penalised for this.

     
    #390978
    SFA STAFF

    Hi,

    Where will we be able to download the Funding Rules Monitoring reports once The Hub is no longer active?

    Thanks

    Reply from the ESFA

    Good morning Charlotte,

    For the rest of 2018/19 (until the end of R14), you can access them on the Hub.

    We’re aiming to have them accessible on Submit Learner Data from R04 in 2019/20.

     
    #391052
    SFA STAFF

    The communication through this thread is very helpful, but why is it so late? There have been many threads on FeConnect over the past weeks and months expressing fears and concerns over the systems and rules for 1920 and yet silence from the Agency which has been extremely unhelpful.

    It is evident from the responses here that some vital components have been “deprioritised” which may compromise efficiency and accuracy – Providers must not be blamed or penalised for this.

    Reply from the ESFA

    Thanks for your feedback, Caspar.

    It’s been really important to us to make sure we have a service up and running by R01 for 2019/20 that means providers are able to make full and accurate data returns.

    We understand the stress providers are under and naturally, due the complexity of the system, we’ve been working up to the wire. This means we didn’t want to put too many communications out, in case of changes, which would cause further confusion.

    Our beta testing period (where we’ve been dual-running with the Hub) has hopefully thrown up most of the problems we might see in the transition period. However, there may be things we haven’t uncovered yet. We’re hoping they will be few and far between though, but we’re on standby should that be the case.

    We’re not looking to blame or penalise providers – in fact our sole purpose has been to lighten the load on them. So please bear with us as we try to embed the system – we’re confident that in the long run, providers will appreciate the changes.

     
    #391054

    TerryFord
    Participant

    Hi ESFA

    I have managed to install SQL server management studio and can see what looks like the FIS tables I am after how do I link an Access Database (2007) to the tables?

    Thanks
    Terry

     
    #391077

    louisegambling
    Participant

    Hi
    Can you confirm whether the validation in the 19/20 Submit Learner Data system will have the functionality to recognise if a ULN has only recently been added?

    The mainstay of our errors of a submission have been to do with ULN’s recently added that day to roll-on, roll-off groups and so we have submitted regardless, as the Hub hasn’t indicated them as errors (assuming that it validates overnight).

    Kind regards

    Louise

     
    #391097
    SFA STAFF

    Hi ESFA

    I have managed to install SQL server management studio and can see what looks like the FIS tables I am after how do I link an Access Database (2007) to the tables?

    Thanks
    Terry

    Reply from the ESFA

    Hi Terry,

    For 2018/19 there is export to Access functionality in FIS itself.

    That functionality for 2019/20 is part of the job we’ll build when we work on the .mdb file.

    Have you tried Martin’s suggestion at all?

     
    #391101

    TerryFord
    Participant

    Are you saying that your suggestion of using SQL server management studio will not work until Xmas for 19-20?

    I have downloaded Martin’s files but I thought I would try the ESFA’s suggestion of using SQL server management studio first, have I just wasted 3 hours trying to link Access to SQL server management studio?

    Terry

     
    #391105

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Terry,
    You can link SQL Server tables to Access, not sure of previous versions but the following applies to access 2016 but you would use the same principle of using a machine data source.

    External data, new data source, from database, From SQL Server
    Link to the data source by creating a linked table
    Machine Data Source – select new
    User Data Source -SQL Server
    Create the name, enter Description and select server……………

    HTH

     
    #391117
    SFA STAFF

    Are you saying that your suggestion of using SQL server management studio will not work until Xmas for 19-20?

    I have downloaded Martin’s files but I thought I would try the ESFA’s suggestion of using SQL server management studio first, have I just wasted 3 hours trying to link Access to SQL server management studio?

    Terry

    Reply from the ESFA

    Hi Terry,

    Yes, you’re right. I was trying to help you find the data you would have got from the .mdb file – which SQL server management studio can help with.

    FIS isn’t actually designed to be used in the way it seems some people are using the .mdb file, but if that’s what you’re hoping to do, we think Martin’s suggestion is your best bet. (Thank you, Martin!)

    We weren’t aware people were using the .mdb file this way before this thread. It’s useful for us to know that – so thank you.

     
    #391119
    SFA STAFF

    Hi
    Can you confirm whether the validation in the 19/20 Submit Learner Data system will have the functionality to recognise if a ULN has only recently been added?

    The mainstay of our errors of a submission have been to do with ULN’s recently added that day to roll-on, roll-off groups and so we have submitted regardless, as the Hub hasn’t indicated them as errors (assuming that it validates overnight).

    Kind regards

    Louise

    Reply from the ESFA

    Hi Louise,

    For now, the ULNs will be updated in Submit Learner Data at the same frequency as the Hub – so it an take up to 2 hours for a new ULN to be available.

    As an agency, we’re investigating ways we can speed this up, so hopefully this improves in the future.

     
    #391121

    TerryFord
    Participant

    Martin

    I am afraid I am just getting error messages “Server does not exist”
    Thanks
    Terry

     
    #391130

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Terry,
    I did include a section ‘Setting ODBC Connection’ in the guide in the ZIP file, if the server is not displayed for selection then you could check with server management studio and copy and past the server name from there.
    HTH

     
    #391142

    Kevin Broomhall
    Participant

    Hi,

    As with the previous comments the mdb export is essential for us, as we use this for Funding Reports/ProAchieve/4Cast imports to name a few.

    Although, as you have stated we can get to the tables from the SQL Database, however my questions are will the table names be in the same structure and naming convention? Are there any new tables that would be included in a FIS Access DB export when available?

    I think it would be useful to have a list of the tables in the SQL Database that would be included in a FIS export so that we can at least create an equivalent dataset.

    Thanks

    Kevin

     
    #391150
    SFA STAFF

    Hi,

    As with the previous comments the mdb export is essential for us, as we use this for Funding Reports/ProAchieve/4Cast imports to name a few.

    Although, as you have stated we can get to the tables from the SQL Database, however my questions are will the table names be in the same structure and naming convention? Are there any new tables that would be included in a FIS Access DB export when available?

    I think it would be useful to have a list of the tables in the SQL Database that would be included in a FIS export so that we can at least create an equivalent dataset.

    Thanks

    Kevin

    Reply from the ESFA

    Hi Kevin,

    We don’t have that level of detail yet I’m afraid, but may have closer to the completion of the work we’re doing for the .mdb file.

     
    #391152

    Sunny
    Participant

    Is an Apps Data Mismatch report avaialble from the new system everytime when a new ILR is submitted? So we can sort out the data issue before the monthly ILR submission deadline.

     
    #391156

    TerryFord
    Participant

    Martin

    I copied and pasted the server address as you said into ODBC Connection and it now says TEST COMPLETED SUCCESSFULLY on Test Data Source (something achieved today), but when I open FIS1920Serverlink the Form_main gives an error message.

    Thanks
    Terry

     
    #391162

    Richard Phipps
    Participant

    We weren’t aware people were using the .mdb file this way before this thread. It’s useful for us to know that – so thank you.

    It’s too late now, but I did mention about using the MDB files when we did the ESFA phone interviews for the new system when it was being developed. 🙁

     
    #391164
    SFA STAFF

    Is an Apps Data Mismatch report avaialble from the new system everytime when a new ILR is submitted? So we can sort out the data issue before the monthly ILR submission deadline.

    Reply from the ESFA

    Hi Sunny,

    It will be soon! We found a problem with the report late last night, so we’re trying our best to sort that out by Tuesday lunchtime. Once up and running, you’ll just need to make another submission to get the report – and you’ll get one every time thereafter.

     
    #391166
Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 159 total)

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