Recording of Large Employer Information on the ILR

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This topic contains 15 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Tony 7 years, 8 months ago.

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  • paultaylor

    Afternoon folks

    The Skills Funding Agency guidance note 2 explains that there will be a 25% reduction in funding for large employers for 2010/11. Our interpretation of this is that we will receive the reduced rate for those learners whom are employed by such large employers. Is this interpretation correct?

    If so then how will these learners be recognised on the ILR and will ILR fields/codes be used to reduce funding automatically through the PFR. Also will this apply to just new starts in 10/11 and carry in and new starts?



    Jill Whittaker

    Hi Paul

    Word is that the FA are developing a methodology by which the ULIN identifies such employers. This is not yet available.



    Tony Braithwaite

    Doesn’t the ULIN identify the learning provider. Surely it would be the Employer number in A44 that would be used. This in turn means that the LIS would have to hold more details about every employer on EDS so that it can determine if they are a large employer or not.



    I presume that the 25% reduction is applied to Large Employers who are also the Trainer

    Otherwise, how would a training provider know if the employer is catoragized as ‘Large’ or not ?



    I read in the SFA Guidance Note 3 that they will be producing a list from EDS database at start of 10/11 of those companies classed as large employers and that A44 will be used to calculate the rate of funding for learners.


    Tony Braithwaite

    The long list of large employer EDRS numbers that has been published is all very well, but how do providers ascertain if an employer is a large employer when they first engage with them for training? We can hardly go back to them after we’ve discovered the LIS is funding at a lower rate to ask them for a larger contribution.

    I don’t understand why the list cannot contain the names, unless there is an alternative method of ascertaining the true size of an employer. It’s too late for providers to find out the true status of an employer after a commitment to provide training has been made.


    Jill Whittaker

    I agree with Tony and have had this discussion with the powers that be in Coventry. Seems there are problems with printing the names of the employers. It was suggested to me that the list could be downloaded and a lookup be done against our current employers, however this cannot be done in excel as the list exceeds 62k lines. Currently the only solution is to go through employer by employer, or to have code written to do the exercise – both of which are time consuming and costly.


    Tony Braithwaite

    I don’t have a problem with current employers who we have in our MIS system, as we obviously need their contact details to invoice them. I have downloaded the list into a SQL table and matched against the employers we are currently working with.

    Its any new employer who we haven’t worked with before that is going to be difficult to verify the size of. It’s hardly a busines like approach to pose the first question to a prospective client “How big are you?” !!!!

    Seriously, business development managers are going to have to know the size of the employer before they negotiate a training deal, so how do they find this out?


    Jill Whittaker

    Indeed – however, we do ask our employers how many employees their are in their group at an early stage in discussions. Better to do it that way round than to have a nasty surprise which needs unexpected nogotiations later. It would be simpler for the SFA to publish the list with names; of course, that would not tell us which companies are in which groups so the questions would still need to be asked.



    Is this not maybe a Freedom of Information Request? And, if denied, a page long article in the TES about the bureaucratic madness of working in Further Education, which might get picked up by the Mail and Express with a bit of luck and eventually John Hayes just telling the SFA to release the list to stop him looking stupid? Seems like the long way round to me, but probably the most likely to work…



    The list names is available via the EDS (EDRS etc) portal or web service. We do a lot of data mining with some of the publically available information listed on web sites or web services and write some very simple, very useful tools to get the data.

    To get the name of the organisation from a URN, you can use Excel

    I have written a simple Excel Template to get the details from EDRS. Download it at

    Run setup to install the Excel Template and then open the xltx in Excel 2007, enter your Web Service credentials in the username.password box and click ‘Get’. You can ask for several at a time. (or the whole Large Employer list!)

    Our main applications can do much more.




    What is the URL for the EDS portal and/or web service please?



    The web service is definition is at

    and the portal is

    You’ll need passwords for each.




    Thanks, Tony



    I’m hoping someone can help me with my code.

    I’m trying to pro-grammatically update our employer details on a daily basis via the the web service:

    I cant seem to store the results of the method “ByURN”

    ‘// Declare the EmployerLookup Web Service object
    Dim svcEmployer As New emplookup.EmployerLookup

    ‘// URN parameter
    Dim intURN As Integer

    ‘// credentials parameter
    Dim strCredentials As String = “user.password”

    ‘// Employer lookup method results object
    Dim svcStructure As emplookup.ConciseEmployerStructure

    intURN = Convert.ToInt32(txtURN.Text)
    svcStructure = svcEmployer.ByUrn(intURN, strCredentials)
    Catch ex As Exception
    End Try

    I get the following error when i attempt to use this code:

    Value of type ‘1-dimensional array of emplookup.ConciseEmployerStructure’ cannot be converted to ’emplookup.ConciseEmployerStructure’.



    It’s been a while but I think ConciseEmployerStructure is an array… wsEL=null;[] wsOrg=null;
    wsEL = new;
    wsOrg = wsEL.ByUrn(iUrn, sWSPassword);

    Works – so try to convert that to VB.NET?


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