Restart after a withdrawal with a new employer

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This topic contains 7 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Martin West 2 weeks, 6 days ago.

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  • STEVEN_H
    Participant

    Afternoon,

    I have a (standard) learner who was withdrawn on the 1st April 19. He now want to restart with a new employer on the same programme (also same provider). I have an understanding of a re-start with the same employer but not a new provider. The Provider support manual explains Recording restarts (without an agreed break in learning)but I can’t find how to deal with the new employer and then how to deal with the TNP 1 & 2.

    Any help will be appreciated.

    Cheers

     
    #399858

    Ben.Feighery
    Participant

    Hi Steven,
    it’s fine for a learner to restart with a new employer.

    Treat it exactly the same as you would if a learner started with you fresh, evaluate the amount of training that needs to be delivered with the new employer, agree a price for that training (the total amount of funding can’t be more than was left in the funding pot when the learner originally left).

    The confusion in the guidance is that the ESFA don’t have any specific coding for this common eventuality and they just assume that you will process them as a withdrawal then add them back on as a restart later.

    With regard to the achievement rates, the 2 halves of the programme should be knitted together by the ESFA as long as the learner is on the same programme and you enter the original learning start date the same as the 1st half of the programme and have a restart code indicated as well.

    Hope that helps,
    Ben F.

     
    #399885

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    The ESFA have said a restart after a withdrawal they treat as a new start and that the minimum duration applies, Providers must APL previous learning and where this results in either a duration of less than 12 months or below the minimum 20% OTJ training hours then the learner is not eligible to restart.
    Other than that, you create a new record for the restart as you would do for any new start.
    HTH

     
    #399887

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    You are not meant to include an Original Start Date for a restart, unless they are returning from a Break in Learning, the Provider Support Manual is clear on that. I don’t think it makes a massive difference though.

    Martin is right about the minimum duration, but that’s complicated. There’s a big thread about it here. Some providers give a shorter than 12 month duration for the restart, but you’re technically breaking the rules by doing that.

     
    #399897

    STEVEN_H
    Participant

    Defiantly looks like I would be breaking rules If I restarted the learner as the programme is a 12 month standard and he has over 50% completed with the previous employer. Strange that the rules are set up in such a way that disadvantages a learner in such a way. Thanks for the info.

     
    #399899

    Ben.Feighery
    Participant

    I would feed this back to your account manager/contact at the ESFA, this clearly isn’t in the best interest of the learner or the sector and if they are returning back to a qualification they would otherwise fail, it would be a lost opportunity and poor investment from the government and it needs to e re-thought.

    Rules like this only encourage providers to break/bend other rules to preserve their QAR figures and funding and it’s no good for anyone.

    Ben F.

     
    #399905

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    I agree with Ben, we need lots of providers to keep raising this with the ESFA. This is hugely detrimental to the apprentices. We are unable to just teach these apprentices for free, so there’s nothing we can do without breaking rules.

    Before any provider turns these apprentices away, be assured that this won’t error in your ILR. It will just appear in a DSAT report, that would only be checked if you were audited. I’m sure we’d been through audit with restarts that weren’t a BIL and weren’t 12 months, and the auditor accepted the combined duration before and after the unplanned break.

     
    #400045

    Martin West
    Participant

    I have to agree with Ruth as for many years Providers have annotated the PDSAT reports to confirm at Audits that minimum durations were evidence from the learners current and previous period of participation.
    I can only assume that the current insistence from the service desk that those who return to the same programme after a withdrawal are a new start is a result of them misinterpreting the funding rules and ILR guidance.
    I have raised this again but do not hold out much hope as there is no rational or understanding of the barriers they are putting in place which goes against the principle of what is in the best interest of the learner.

     
    #400053
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