Forum Replies Created
It is confusing. I contacted our CDS advisor about it but they weren’t aware of the return and advised me to submit a query via EFA portal – I think that in itself is quite telling.
As the adult learning service in the council We’ve never had to use the Information Exchange either although other teams in the LA do have to use it.
My query was based on needing, as a LA, to give both options so which one takes priority. Like Shelagh, our team would select option B as we have no contact with maintained sixth forms or LA controlled learning providers. We’d then need to get it signed off by our CFO and get someone from schools data team to upload.
However as a LA, we do get money from the Agency to distribute to school sixth forms (significantly more than our Service’s AEB grant) so would have to declare option A that it is redistributed. My initial thought were that the school grant determines the correct response, but this wasn’t helped by the link in the guidance going to the 1617 allocation spreadsheet that only has our AEB allocation (not the sixth form one). I’m still waiting for response.
Hi – I’ve had this a few times and have FIS on a separate non work laptop. The workaround for me was downloading sql server configuration manager and opening up SQL Server Services from the left hand tree view. Whenever I had the storage settings screen in FIS, either SQL Server (SQLExpress), or one of the other options – SQL Server Agent or SQL Server Browser was stopped.
I’ve just checked our system now and it’s SQL Server Services that needs to run – I have start mode set to automatic but still have to manually restart it sometimes.
There seems to be so many variables with FIS that cause errors that this may not work but worth a try…
Abby – Martin is correct – also I’ve just checked the error conditions in the 1718 Validation Rules spreadsheet for R108 and I don’t think my last post is correct – particularly because one of the conditions is that all aims are closed (ie not null) or not closed with a 6 outcome (which is no longer valid in 1718 anyway) and the file preparation date is two months after the actual end date. Apologies for any confusion.
The start date/collection date for at least one destination needs to be after the actual end date – not sure if that’s causing your error? If you’ve put 1st August 2017 and learners are still learning in current year I think it would fail even if they started before your start date.
It feels like this being a requirement for all learners (including withdrawn learners) within two months of their actual end date means we’re moving back to a progression intention (like the old ILR L39 Destination field) rather than an actual which I thought was the original purpose of introducing the progression destination entity.
I think this is especially true for learners who have withdrawn, bearing in mind college MIS might not know the actual end date of the learner immediately – particularly on short courses that are still running at the time of the ILR preparation.
Hi – I had exactly the same thing and it is a known issue.
I’ve heard from a colleague that the release of component set 009 has added an option to export to an Access database in a flattened format. She sent a screen shot and it’s below the normal database export check box.
I’m not sure about all the field changes in the original post but do know that it adds the provider specified fields and the FAM codes back into the learning delivery table at the very least.
Hi Nick – I raised a call with the Service Desk for exactly that reason – the Hub applies additional validation rules to the FIS so sometimes necessary to clean data and resubmit. I received the following response:
‘This communication was sent to advise providers not to make continued submissions when they have a complete error free ILR on the HUB, It has been noticed that a number of providers who complete the ILR return error free in advance of the deadline day will then submit a further file (exactly the same data) which is unnecessary. This has an impact on providers who are trying to clear data errors on the day of returns before the 6pm close time, as it causes a queue on the HUB due to the way the file validation works.
This communication is advise and was not sent out to warn providers they could no longer make continued submissions but just to be mindful if they already have an error free ILR return not to submit further data on the returns day deadline.’
I didn’t think the item in update issue 378 explains this rationale clearly and is open to misinterpretation.November 6, 2017 at 11:38 am in reply to: Why is ESFA suddenly banning multiple ILR returns? #212171
Steve – have you still got my number?
I haven’t since posting above. I’d asked if the update (hopefully putting back the provider specified fields into their respective tables – learner and learning delivery) would just be a main component set update and I received a response saying that was correct.
As a result, I’m waiting for a main component set update in the next week and hoping it will sort out the issues we have. Judging from Ian’s response (posted above) it means there will be two options open to us – the ‘new’ in year database export, which prompted Steven’s initial post in this thread and this 6th-8th November fix which I’m hoping will mean most of our old import routines will still work.
I’ve had this response from Ian Tress (Data Collections Service Product Owner) at the Agency:
“We are aware the schema provided in the latest FIS mdb export has changed in the current version.
To provide minimal impact for anyone who might have already updated their export routine; we are looking at providing both the flattened structure and the normalised structure from the most recent update.
We will also be adding the missing DV and FD Val tables to the export.
We are endeavouring to deploy this to live between the 6th & 8th of Nov in time for the R04 close.”
In a conversation last week I’d specifically mentioned the Provider Specified fields not being in the learner/learning delivery table and think this means they’ll be going back into the FIS db export as part of the flattened structure export.
Thanks for the summary – that’s really useful – it does have some pretty big implications for us (and organisations we work with as well).
I’m going to contact the Agency directly but do you think this is going to be it for the year or is it an interim hiccup before another FIS update changes the export again? It’s a lot of work for us and others we work with, if we then have to change back later in the year.
didn’t think it was likely (or possible) but thought I’d check. I’ve also realised what you mean by looking at the second query – we’ll have to rewrite all our import routines and I thought it was just the learner details…….what a pain
Steve – I haven’t had a chance to test yet, but when you say the 14/15 configuration export does that mean the address fields have stayed where they used to be in a separate learner contact table rather than moving into the learner table (where they used to be about five years ago)!
Hi – as soon as I saw the prerequisite software and admin rights required I thought that was going to be the case. I just want to ensure DSAT with SQL Express doesn’t interfere with FIS – otherwise I’ll need a third laptop!
Hi – the guidance only has Windows:
ILR Learner Entry Operating System compatibility
ILR Learner Entry will work with the following Windows operating systems
• Windows XP
• Microsoft Vista
• Microsoft Windows 7
• Microsoft Windows 8
• Microsoft Windows 8.1
• Microsoft Windows 10
ILR Learner Entry will operate in either a 32 bit or 64 bit environment.
Once you’ve manually inputted the learners and learning delivery there’s an XML export from the ILRLearnerEntry.
The FIS is other ESFA software that validates your ILR file and produces reports – you’ll need to look at the documentation on the FIS download page (the link is in the same place as the ILRLearnerEntry software). You can also look at the Provider Support Manual and the ILR Specification for more info.
Stephen – you beat me to it!
I think your best (and cheapest) bet for 60 learners would be to use the 17/18 ILR Learner Entry Tool provided by the ESFA.
It’s free, it works and the link is at the bottom right hand side of the Hub homepage:
It’s manual data entry but you can export an XML ILR file and run it through the FIS to validate.
Thanks Caspar – I’ll give it a try.
Hi – like Martin I’ve imported our XML ILR file into the system for various tests with well over 500 learners. It took ages for the file to load (and also to export its own XML export), but it was in excess of 4000 learners and 7000 learning delivery records.
I’ve lost logins to IDAMS/Hub and SFS – logged a call with service desk and they were not able to reset at their end either.
Community Learning isn’t formula funded, so it could only have been pre-populated with learner numbers rather than amount generated on quals.
I think you’re supposed to put in actual mid year spend on former CL and then predict spend for the rest of the year. Our return had a sub heading in brackets at the top of the page telling us what last year’s CL allocation was.
Re Community Learning response to CDC’s question:
“If providers want to deliver provision similar to CL from their Adult Education Budget (AEB), they can, but they must follow the AEB funding approach set out in the funding rates and formula 2016 to 2017 and learners must meet the eligibility criteria set out in the adult education budget 2016 to 2017 funding rules.”
We currently have a small ASB allocation (less than 10% of our overall allocation) so do the new funding rules mean we could use this part of our allocation for Community Learning delivery?
A providers’ Adult Education Budget (AEB) allocation for 2016 to 2017 will include an amount equivalent to their 2015 to 2016 Community Learning (CL) allocation. These providers can continue (if they wish) to deliver CL provision as now, up to the value of their 2015 to 2016 CL allocation. This activity will be funded following the current CL non-formula funded approach, and providers will be expected to:
• complete a funding declaration after the 2016 to 2017 funding year ends, and
• submit ILR data against one of the relevant four programme elements: Personal and Community Development Learning (PCDL); Neighbourhood Learning in Deprived Communities (NLDC); Wider Family Learning (WFL) and Family English, Maths and Language (FEML).
If providers want to deliver provision similar to CL from their Adult Education Budget (AEB), they can, but they must:
- follow the AEB funding approach set out in the funding rates and formula 2016 to 2017, and
- ensure learners meet the eligibility criteria set out in the adult education budget 2016 to 2017 funding rules.
Providers should ensure their learning offer responds to the needs of their local area, working with local stakeholders, including Local Enterprise Partnerships and local authorities. This will support transition to skills commissioning and full devolution, subject to readiness conditions, from 2018/19 for those local government authorities with devolution deals.February 4, 2016 at 2:07 pm in reply to: Online Q&A on the funding rules for 2016 to 2017 – now closed #20896
There are still quite a few of us (mainly working for LAs I’d imagine) where uninstalling and re-installing FIS isn’t a straightforward procedure that we, as end users, can easily perform. If the FIS and Hub is being updated in preparation for a return window, shouldn’t it be set up so it doesn’t wipe the old version and not install the new one correctly?